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Forums - Synths & synthesis
Subject: positive and negative modulation Q
Viewing all 8 messages - View by pages of 10: 1
Original Message 1/8 17-Jan-02 @ 03:35 PM - positive and negative modulation Q
okaaay... i´ve been wondering about this for a while so i thought i´d ask some of you more experienced synth headz. it goes for all the synth/sampler sounds i guess.
ok, so you program a sound, and set your filter cutoff and Q to your liking (for example). and then assign the mod wheel to affect the filter cutoff.
now... when you hear the presets on a syth, you can usually modulate it both positively and negatively, right? raise and lower the cutoff. but how do i do it if the mod matrix allows me to set only the + or - amount, not both?
untill now i was setting the filter to minimum in the synth (or sampler), and then assigning the correct value in the sequencer, from which i can modulate parameters in both directions. i imagine there must be a better way to do this, right?
thanx for the help. m.
(FYI, i´m using uQ, matrix1000, and emu esi2000, but i imagine there must be a general principle applicable to all synths.)
ok, so you program a sound, and set your filter cutoff and Q to your liking (for example). and then assign the mod wheel to affect the filter cutoff.
now... when you hear the presets on a syth, you can usually modulate it both positively and negatively, right? raise and lower the cutoff. but how do i do it if the mod matrix allows me to set only the + or - amount, not both?
untill now i was setting the filter to minimum in the synth (or sampler), and then assigning the correct value in the sequencer, from which i can modulate parameters in both directions. i imagine there must be a better way to do this, right?
thanx for the help. m.
(FYI, i´m using uQ, matrix1000, and emu esi2000, but i imagine there must be a general principle applicable to all synths.)
Message 2/8 17-Jan-02 @ 03:49 PM - RE: positive and negative modulation Q
If I understand correctely, even if you move the modwheel into the negative direction this cannot be heard? I thought it would be that you can determine the modwheel's "0" position and modulate from there... or am I thick?
Message 3/8 17-Jan-02 @ 04:11 PM Edit: 17-Jan-02 | 04:12 PM - RE: positive and negative modulation Q
not sure if I understand either .....if you want to have a filter you can sweep by the mod wheel you set the filter to fully open and then set the moddepth to -/+127 or whatever . Assuming you want to sweep the filter the whole way that is.
[edit]
I forgot - if you have a uq then surely you can just use the peek function on the presets to see how its been setup?
[edit]
I forgot - if you have a uq then surely you can just use the peek function on the presets to see how its been setup?
Message 4/8 17-Jan-02 @ 04:14 PM - RE: positive and negative modulation Q
what i mean is, i can modulate it negatively, but not go below the original value (the one i assigned when programming the sound). know what i mean?
ok, here´s what i do: i set the filter to my liking, and then assign mod wheel to cutoff, and asign a positive mod value (+63, for example). that explains why i cannot go lower than the original value. but what do i need to add so i can go in both directions?
i´m sorry, but i dont know how to explain this in a simpler way. i guess thats an insight into my way of thinking or sumthing...
ok, here´s what i do: i set the filter to my liking, and then assign mod wheel to cutoff, and asign a positive mod value (+63, for example). that explains why i cannot go lower than the original value. but what do i need to add so i can go in both directions?
i´m sorry, but i dont know how to explain this in a simpler way. i guess thats an insight into my way of thinking or sumthing...
Message 5/8 17-Jan-02 @ 04:19 PM - RE: positive and negative modulation Q
ah, steve posted at the same time as me.
yup, thats what i´m doing. leaving the filter fully open (or closed). but i would really like to know how i can make sounds recall with my preffered settings, so i dont have to search for the right values every time i recall them.
yup, thats what i´m doing. leaving the filter fully open (or closed). but i would really like to know how i can make sounds recall with my preffered settings, so i dont have to search for the right values every time i recall them.
Message 6/8 17-Jan-02 @ 04:49 PM - RE: positive and negative modulation Q
depends on what you are trying to do i guess.
problem is that most synths treat all midi CCs as going between 0-127.
to do a true +/- modulation, you'd need the synth to treat the CC as going
between -64 to 63 instead, and you'd need a midi controller that sends
0 in the middle of the knob/slider's range instead of the top. neither of these typically exist for any controller other than pitch bend.
so, there are three (well, four) choices:
first depends on your modwheel... some mod wheels are 'spring-loaded' i.e. when you let go they spring back to 0. this is useless and won't help you here (though for some other things it might be useful). if it's not spring-loaded, then you can move it and it will stay where you set it. in this case, set the modwheel to +63 like you do usually, set filter cutoff to 0 like you have been, and then use the modwheel to set the filter where you want it. this is the center point. record that into a sequencer so you can know exactly what mod wheel value you want (and embed this into a track somewhere so you can return to
'middle' easily). then you can move it up and down during a track.
ok, so that's too much of a pain. if you are not using pitch bend otherwise, and your synth lets you do it, you can route pitch bend to filter cutoff instead of mod wheel. this is uaully interpreted as +/- and will do what you want.
third, you need a certain kind of controller to do this, but you can map TWO controllers to the filter cutoff, one +, one -. for example, on the matrix 6 you get two levers on the board; the first is pitch bend, but the second is sort of unique, when you push it away from you, it's one controller 0-127, but when you pull it towards you it's a different controller 0-127. so, if you map the first controller to +, and the second to -, it works the way you'd want. most synths don't have this kind of controller, but i know of at least that one that does. the korg joysticks are also similar - right and left is pitchbend, up is one CC, down is a different CC, so routing up to + and down to - does something similar. an alternative is to route the mod wheel for instance to +, and aftertouch or velocity to -.
fourth is that of course if the filter has a CC you can modify it directly. works for a sequencer but not for live tweaking i guess. but at least you can recall the 'proper' cutoff value easily with a program change...
problem is that most synths treat all midi CCs as going between 0-127.
to do a true +/- modulation, you'd need the synth to treat the CC as going
between -64 to 63 instead, and you'd need a midi controller that sends
0 in the middle of the knob/slider's range instead of the top. neither of these typically exist for any controller other than pitch bend.
so, there are three (well, four) choices:
first depends on your modwheel... some mod wheels are 'spring-loaded' i.e. when you let go they spring back to 0. this is useless and won't help you here (though for some other things it might be useful). if it's not spring-loaded, then you can move it and it will stay where you set it. in this case, set the modwheel to +63 like you do usually, set filter cutoff to 0 like you have been, and then use the modwheel to set the filter where you want it. this is the center point. record that into a sequencer so you can know exactly what mod wheel value you want (and embed this into a track somewhere so you can return to
'middle' easily). then you can move it up and down during a track.
ok, so that's too much of a pain. if you are not using pitch bend otherwise, and your synth lets you do it, you can route pitch bend to filter cutoff instead of mod wheel. this is uaully interpreted as +/- and will do what you want.
third, you need a certain kind of controller to do this, but you can map TWO controllers to the filter cutoff, one +, one -. for example, on the matrix 6 you get two levers on the board; the first is pitch bend, but the second is sort of unique, when you push it away from you, it's one controller 0-127, but when you pull it towards you it's a different controller 0-127. so, if you map the first controller to +, and the second to -, it works the way you'd want. most synths don't have this kind of controller, but i know of at least that one that does. the korg joysticks are also similar - right and left is pitchbend, up is one CC, down is a different CC, so routing up to + and down to - does something similar. an alternative is to route the mod wheel for instance to +, and aftertouch or velocity to -.
fourth is that of course if the filter has a CC you can modify it directly. works for a sequencer but not for live tweaking i guess. but at least you can recall the 'proper' cutoff value easily with a program change...
Message 7/8 17-Jan-02 @ 05:51 PM - RE: positive and negative modulation Q
thanks nomad. good info in your post, got me thinking some more.
i guess i´ll just have to build some more CC transformers into my Logic enviroment. no problem there. except... i wish i could do it for each port separately, to make use of built in CC for each synth. (runs of to the logic forum to start another thread).
tnx all, if anyone has a different idea, please let me know. m.
i guess i´ll just have to build some more CC transformers into my Logic enviroment. no problem there. except... i wish i could do it for each port separately, to make use of built in CC for each synth. (runs of to the logic forum to start another thread).
tnx all, if anyone has a different idea, please let me know. m.
Message 8/8 18-Jan-02 @ 06:19 PM - RE: positive and negative modulation Q
ok, this is going to sound really lame, but it's a possible band-aid. Lets say you have param x, and you want it to be able to adjust the modulation on both sides of zero. You are using a normal mod-wheel as control source. Set the original value at the far end of the modulation value you desire, and set the range to give you the amount of modulation you desire in the other direction. (note, simply doubling the value to give you double ranges doesn't work for waldorf, as their curves are exponential for most of their modulations.) You'll have to set it by ear, but it's all about the sound anyway, right? This is a possible band-aid. Not perfect, but a rather obvious attempt. Worked for me. 
Ape
Ape
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