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Subject: poping when retrigering bass sample

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Original Message 1/13 28-Feb-02 @ 01:53 AM - poping when retrigering bass sample

Brett B

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I have never been able to figure out how to keep the pop from appreing when the filter is open and you retriger a deep bass sample before the end of the previous. It does it on my emu and now it's doing it in the Reason NN19. I had made all these great pre-sets from sampling my mks-80 and juno, but they have the same problem. I played with the filter envelop but nothing seems to cure it. Even changes the start of the sample and pulled back on the amp envelop attack. Anyone even over come this.

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Message 2/13 28-Feb-02 @ 02:30 AM - RE: poping when retrigering bass sample

influx

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how about making the voice mono so it cuts off the other?

'sides...a tiny bit of amp attack has always worked for me!

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Message 3/13 28-Feb-02 @ 09:58 AM - RE: poping when retrigering bass sample

milan

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now that you mention it, i get this often with my emu, but adjusting amp attack/release can usually help, no?

influx, what do you mean by "making the voice mono so it cuts off the other"?

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Message 4/13 28-Feb-02 @ 01:06 PM - RE: poping when retrigering bass sample

Deano

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I've noticed this on various instruments. I think it's due to the transient when you truncate a bass note before the envelope has finished decaying. This transient has high frequency energy and sounds like a click or pop. Fiddling with the envelopes will usually fix it but in my experience it's fairly hit and miss. I think you may be better off with a poly patch rather than mono. Sounds like a strange idea for bass but, with a short release, the sounding note will decay rather than being truncated by the new note. You get a bit of overlap but that's better than a nasty click. This effect occurs on any mono sound of course but you only notice it on deep bass where there is no other high frequency stuff to hide it.

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Message 5/13 28-Feb-02 @ 02:53 PM - RE: poping when retrigering bass sample

Maarten

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What influx is suggesting would resolve problems at the release end of a note and not the attack, no? In mono, no poly... so where the new one starts, the other stops, you still hear the click or whatever in this case....

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Message 6/13 28-Feb-02 @ 02:57 PM - RE: poping when retrigering bass sample

Maarten

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Btw, agree with Deano on the extra release... oh, and I have the problem often too.

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Message 7/13 28-Feb-02 @ 08:42 PM - RE: poping when retrigering bass sample

damballah

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I don't know about the mono part, I can make my SH-101 do that, too. Slower attack or quicker release.

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Message 8/13 28-Feb-02 @ 09:01 PM - RE: poping when retrigering bass sample

influx

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but if you have too fast a release it will pop

different on a monosynth. in a sampler in mono mode when you trigger a new note the old one stops

has worked for me before

dunno...maybe more precise editing?

POPING

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Message 9/13 28-Feb-02 @ 09:23 PM - RE: poping when retrigering bass sample

Brett B

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well, it only happens in mono mode. OIf the patch is poly and you trigger the other note sustaos and no problem. It only is occuring when the other note is truncated for the new note to triger. My emu does it, and my softsamplers do it, but I don't think I have noticed it on comercial patches. It's a zero crossing thing isn't it? I emailed emu a long time ago and they told me to open the filter envelop. Well the filter envelop was wide open. So I am thinking there is some kind common anamoly occuring with low tones being truncated and not a a zero crossing that causes the pop. I wish I could get a around it, because I have some fat presets.

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Message 10/13 05-Mar-02 @ 02:39 PM - RE: poping when retrigering bass sample

nomad

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it's like deano said i think... there was a lot of discussion on this on the waldorf boards, because the XT and Q do this too. basically, when you're in mono mode, it ignores the release on the envelope and just kills the note flat. any thing going from max to 0 in the matter of a half millisecond will pop

the only way to fix it, is for whatever synth you are using to put a little bit of 'slop' in, and allow the other note to fade out over a few milliseconds as the new note is playing, obviously this takes up an extra voice. you can't program it in, the synth has to do this for you. it ignores the release envelope altogether. that's why poly mode works, you get a 'normal' release instead of this 'clip to zero' thing.

on a 'real' mono, you just have one (or two) oscillators that just change pitch, no clipping, so no problems.

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Message 11/13 05-Mar-02 @ 05:19 PM - RE: poping when retrigering bass sample

damballah

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yeah, POPING. it's kinda like BISHOPING, but louder.

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Message 12/13 05-Mar-02 @ 10:41 PM Edit: 05-Mar-02 | 10:47 PM - RE: poping when retrigering bass sample

panama

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If your not layering basses, just zoom in on the mono waveform and use a volume tool to make a quick slope (up or down) depending on where the pop is.

I have this problem with the Juno-106. When I gate or use a short decay, I get an annoying pop. So, I just use the volume tool visually once everything is recorded and manually create envelopes the synth couldn't achieve.

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Message 13/13 07-Mar-02 @ 10:49 PM - RE: poping when retrigering bass sample

Brett B

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that could take all day on a complex riff with filter changes going on all the way through the track. I knew it had be a zero crossing issue. It's slicing the audio before the zero and thus the pop. If they could write the software to sustain until it passes the zero and then cuts the pop would be gone. Well that's my theory and I think it could be done with and os modification. But could the hardware support such analysis while still playing. The waldorfs did a buch of stuff I didn't like. I sold mine, I never could get used to those velocity sensing knobs. That is the stupidist invention I have ever seend. They jump all over the place when you tweek them. Anyway, thanks Nomad!

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