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Subject: eastern scales
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Original Message 1/32 05-Mar-02 @ 06:06 AM - eastern scales
Message 2/32 05-Mar-02 @ 08:09 AM - RE: eastern scales
basically, and this is probably not a 'proper' definition, but you get the modal scales by playing the notes of say cmajor but starting on different notes, d for dorian which is used a lot in jazz, e for phrygian, which sounds a bit spanish.
modes are generally concerned with melody, it's how ppl wrote tunes way before they started thinking about harmony. bear in mind that there are some non-western scales that don't use the same notes as your keyboard, but some notes in between. some synths/romplers will let you use non-western tunings.
Message 3/32 05-Mar-02 @ 05:23 PM - RE: eastern scales
Message 4/32 05-Mar-02 @ 05:39 PM - RE: eastern scales
Message 5/32 06-Mar-02 @ 11:08 PM - RE: eastern scales
I do do that already I think. Aolian or likes. Can't remember how to spell those scales. I use a scale but change the tonic and just use the same notes from that scale with a diferant root. Is that what you mean?
Thank everyone, including Sitar for making me laugh.
Message 6/32 06-Mar-02 @ 11:25 PM - RE: eastern scales
can't remember who insulted who or where, but
Orbital has been getting thrown around alot. LOL
Message 7/32 07-Mar-02 @ 12:19 AM - RE: eastern scales
all with the same length (1 beat each or crotchets) around 100 bpm i'm guessing. maybe a little slower, with feeling this time, ok? ;)
all these notes are in the scale of c major but does it hell sound like c major. that's because it's in a modal scale. they're the first notes from 'concerto de aranjuez' by rodriguez or 'sketches of spain' by miles davis. go listen to them. and listen to the 'kind of blue' album by miles davis.
you can download 'so what' by that album from kazaa. just two modal 'keys' up and down. beautifull. 'maiden voyage' is another.
Message 8/32 07-Mar-02 @ 05:45 PM - RE: eastern scales
brett, I'm not interested in being your little online enemy or anything, so in the spirit of civility I urge you to check out Miles' "In a Silent Way", perhaps *the* clearest example of a 'modal sound' I can think of.
Message 9/32 07-Mar-02 @ 07:30 PM - RE: eastern scales
if you feel like some reading, there's a Jazz Improvisation Primer online that can 'splain some of these modal concepts at ya. but the indian thing, as sitar explained in that "goa goa" thread, is not just a particular series of flatted this or that notes but that you slide from one note to another. maybe I'm oversimplifying here though. sue me.
Message 10/32 08-Mar-02 @ 01:02 PM - RE: eastern scales
Message 11/32 08-Mar-02 @ 11:01 PM - RE: eastern scales
In north indian music there is basically a 12 tone scale with some diversion from it. South India uses quarter tones so I'll stick to north. The bending of notes both in the scale and as embellishment is what does it mostly. You can't bend indiscriminately though as one might bend a blues guitar note for feeling. The notes are bent or slid seamlessy into eachother. Example: Say we're in the key of C. In Raag Jaijaivanti the notes D>F>E and holding E for a moment is done a lot. D and F must be given their full tonal value, in other words the listener has to hear them being touched clearly no matter how short or long the duration of the slide. During the slide one could almost say an infinate number of vibrations are being passed through, but clearly the notes that are heard by the listener are D, F, E. Raag Desh will do the same thing but land on D again. The sliding is what differentiates that music and western music in tonaly.
Scales: You have 5, 6, and 7 note scales, the rules of which are strictly adhered to in each given Raag. Example: Raag Yaman in C would be played (as the fundamental scale only) ascending: B D E F# A B D C. The 1st and 5th are skipped over when ascending. All seven notes are used in the descending scale.
Rag Puriya B Dflat E F# A B Dflat C. You skip the 1st ascending. All notes are taken in the descending.
Rag Todi Same as Puriya but with Eflat and Aflat instead.
gotta go.
I'll be back :P
Message 12/32 09-Mar-02 @ 12:14 AM - RE: eastern scales
Raag Jog is C E F G Bb C ascending and C Bb G F Eb C descending. Both the major and minor 3rds are used playfully off of each other. One goes from F to E and F to Eb so it's sweet to slide from F to E at times but continue through E to Eb, which is a good example of what I mentioned before. When the skills are there one can slide from F to Eb without ever noticing there is an E in between, but one can also "show E" as they say on the way to Eb. It's effective when done at the right moments and brings exclamations of "Shabaaz" and "Khyabat-he" from the audience. They think you are stopping on E and then you don't. Bends the minds when all are expecting E and Eb to be in seperate phrases. Getting off on a tangent.
Raag Kalavati is a beautiful 5 note raag. C E G D Bb C. Up and down. Each raag has its own characteristic motif which I won't go into here.
I have to go again but in Indian music notes are sung and played in such a way that you can snake 5 or 7 or more notes in one successive try. Try it with a modwheel. It's difficult, at least with mine, to get the notes in tune. On sitar you can 8 notes. On Surbahar, the bass sitar, you can pull an octave.
I'll be back :P
Message 13/32 09-Mar-02 @ 03:15 AM - RE: eastern scales
Um....In raag puriya a very typical pull of the string would be A C B Db C B C, or start from the 4th and play F# B A C B Db C B C, or A C B Db C Db C B C, or another Db F# E F# E.
You don't really need to know all this except to understand the concept of sliding, snaking notes. When it's done slowly, like quarter notes at 100bpm maybe, it's called meend. When it's done quickly, like 16ths or 32nds at 100bpm it's called gamuk.
I clicked the notes of Puriya.
Message 14/32 09-Mar-02 @ 03:16 AM - RE: eastern scales
C | C# | D | D# | E | F | F# | G | G# | A | A# | B | C | C# | D | D# | E | F | F# | G | G# | A | A# | B | C | C# | D | D# | E | F | F# | G | G# | A | A# | B | C |
x | x | x | x | x | x | x | x | x | x | x | x | x | x | x | x | x | x | x |
Forgot to click the Add keyboard...
Message 15/32 10-Mar-02 @ 04:19 AM - RE: eastern scales
Message 16/32 10-Mar-02 @ 05:26 AM - RE: eastern scales
Message 17/32 10-Mar-02 @ 12:26 PM - RE: eastern scales
Going into the event list and/or drawing portamento would be the best way I think too. My pitchbend wheel mechanism would need much more resistance in it to make that kind of playing at all reasonable.
Message 18/32 10-Mar-02 @ 10:43 PM - RE: eastern scales
Message 19/32 12-Mar-02 @ 10:29 AM - RE: eastern scales
Message 20/32 12-Mar-02 @ 10:34 AM - RE: eastern scales
Message 21/32 12-Mar-02 @ 01:16 PM - RE: eastern scales
Message 22/32 12-Mar-02 @ 04:18 PM - RE: eastern scales
Message 23/32 12-Mar-02 @ 05:25 PM - RE: eastern scales
Message 24/32 13-Mar-02 @ 01:09 AM - RE: eastern scales
Message 25/32 13-Mar-02 @ 07:26 PM - RE: eastern scales
C | C# | D | D# | E | F | F# | G | G# | A | A# | B | C | C# | D | D# | E | F | F# | G | G# | A | A# | B | C | C# | D | D# | E | F | F# | G | G# | A | A# | B | C |
x | x | x | x | x | x |
Sounds like Sitar's given you the basic information you need about bending notes. I think the different characters of the raags are fascinating and I'm learning to recognize the characteristic ornaments in a few of them. I also think it's worth learning from a real teacher if you're seriously interested in Eastern music.
But for now if you want to just create an Eastern sounding scale in a simple way, play with flatting the 7th, then with flatting the 3rd. Then even try flatting the 2nd. See what you like, what sounds appropriate for the mood of your tune. Personally, I find that the time-of-day designations for the raags make sense somehow. In general, raags with a flatted 3rd & 7th (&/or? Sitar?), the Purvang Rags, fall between 9pm and 3am, which is perfect for lots of electronic music. And I recall reading some Ravi Shankar liner notes where he said he liked to use the flatted 2nd & flatted 7th a lot because they helped create transcendent states. Use with respect. I'll never forget (at least the basic idea of) that story about Narada where he was brought to see the beautiful beings, the Raagas, he had been unwittingly torturing by playing badly. I'm sure that tale is very effective at getting earnest young ones to practice.
Message 26/32 14-Mar-02 @ 02:07 AM - RE: eastern scales
There is a story about the great singer Mian Ki Tansen who was supposedly so adept that he had the power to invoke the elements with his singing. A skeptical king demanded that he sing Raag Deepak, which even today is never performed as it is said to create fire, or face death . As he could not dissuade the king he began to sing. Singing Raag Deepak, he became hotter and hotter. A female student of his that was present, fearing he would not survive, started to sing Raag Megh Malhar or Mian Ki Malhar which caused clouds to appear and rain down on Tansen, thus protecting him from bursting into flames.
Remember that next time your mixer starts smoking.
Message 27/32 14-Mar-02 @ 09:19 AM - RE: eastern scales
Message 28/32 14-Mar-02 @ 09:30 AM - RE: eastern scales
keep this info coming guys, very interesting. music&legends.
Message 29/32 14-Mar-02 @ 01:01 PM - RE: eastern scales
Message 30/32 14-Mar-02 @ 04:49 PM - RE: eastern scales
Message 31/32 15-Mar-02 @ 07:47 PM Edit: 15-Mar-02 | 07:57 PM - RE: eastern scales
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