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Subject: romplers

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Original Message 1/45 17-Mar-02 @ 11:27 AM - romplers

panama

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IMO, well, after getting my JV-1010 to work with my midi/Sounddiver setup... I've come to the conclusion, that in order for a mix to sound BIG - One would need to invest a lot $$$$ in buying a ROMpler of some sort.

Anything that Roland has made beyond the JV-1080 is top notch for making bigger mixes.

It's the icing on the cake (thoose over tones and textures that glue chunks of music together and make 'em flow)... ALL there ready to be tweaked and mangled.... WITH the digital upfront edge.

sanctity

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Message 2/45 17-Mar-02 @ 02:52 PM - RE: romplers

Pongoid

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Poop. Romplers are all about somebody else's sounds. They are for fucks who like to sound average, and lack the talent and initiative to create their own sounds. Romplers have nothing to do with sounding big. Big is not in your rompler. It is in your ears, your mixer, your monitors, your compression, your EQ, your effects (reverb especially), and your mastering engineer. Romplers are what? READ ONLY MEMORY PLAYERS. This equates to DOGSHIT FOR COMMERCIAL EARS THAT DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT ORIGINALITY OR CREATIVITY AND ARE ONLY USING THIS PIECE OF MUSIC TO SELL SOMETHING ELSE. I know. I do this shit for a living. Throw your conclussion out the window, and read that mastering article by Bob Katz, mentiuoned in the Mixing threads. It will help you a lot more in getting a big sound than some shitty preset box.

Ape

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Message 3/45 17-Mar-02 @ 05:49 PM - RE: romplers

damballah

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that is just the oddest fucking thing I've ever read, panama. how many of these big $$$ would you suggest is enough?

to be fair, they're quite alright for things like, say, pianos. or do you have to create your own pianos from scratch to avoid lack of originality and creativity? or does the mere act of using a piano sound in a piece of music indicate that lack?

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Message 4/45 17-Mar-02 @ 08:20 PM Edit: 17-Mar-02 | 08:23 PM - RE: romplers

panama

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So what if it's Read Only Memory... it's what I've found to do with the synthesis part of things that make a ROMpler much more special... Sure it's great to have real sounds (pianos, sitars, harps), but it's also great to have more in the synthesis and tweaking department. Yeah I know making a big mix is all about: mixing, compression, eq, limiting, mastering, etc... I'm just saying that having a rompler to back up already good analog sounds or to backup strings or analog bloops, always tends to open a mix up. And when you dive more into editing 'like say editing a JV-1010' - you'll discover more about filling holes in your songs, adding atmos with your own fucked up digitize character.

I don't understand this commercial poop phrase thing with ROMplers... Sure there cheap to make, and every Joe can dial up the same preset with a drop of hat... I just don't get why there not viable from a musician standpoint. I mean, a guitar is a guitar - A B3 organ, is an B3 organ. Some people just play instruments. I for one - don't really play, but I like having natural sounds.

d: well, I dunno - for starters a JD-990 costs about $ 550.00 with Vintage Synth card and a modern Roland Rompler can cost you anywhere from $ 400.00 - $ 2000.00. you prolly know this.

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Message 5/45 17-Mar-02 @ 08:28 PM - RE: romplers

panama

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"I've come to the conclusion, that in order for a mix to sound BIG - One would need to invest a lot $$$$ in buying a ROMpler of some sort."

I take this statement back. It should more like say: "In order for a mix to sound busy and full - One should look into investing a lot of $$$$ ..."

and change bigger to fuller in the first post.

Gotta stop the speedy speed.

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Message 6/45 17-Mar-02 @ 10:28 PM - RE: romplers

xoxos

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is that what it is then? i was over at my friend's house the other day and he's got three digital upfront edges set up in his garage. those are awesome.

have to say after messing with the waveform modulating stuff of the 1010 (which is a cool technology sound) it's hard to get as excited about it.. that's not going to stop me from having exorcist style sex with it for little pictures of grand pianos all over the place.. but i can hear the denseness.. i can hear the denseness..

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Message 7/45 18-Mar-02 @ 04:02 PM - RE: romplers

Pongoid

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LOL

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Message 8/45 25-Mar-02 @ 06:59 AM - RE: romplers

realtrance

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Pongoid,

I consider your assertions a _little_ over the top... but they were just right for the question, though. You're not going to get a "big" sound by buying a "big" ROMpler, for sure.

I do wonder where all the strong emotion regarding ROMplers comes from, just curious, not arguing or questioning. Obviously someone attacked you with one once upon a time or something, or someone you ended up really despising spent too much time trying to convince you to buy one....??? I know, I know, the religion here is smapler... just wanted to hear a little more about your vivid ROMpler pain, thanks!

rt

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Message 9/45 25-Mar-02 @ 08:41 PM - RE: romplers

xoxos

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simple.. i think he must've accidentally turned on a radio or a television set or downloaded some 'electronic music' off mp3.com or something

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Message 10/45 25-Mar-02 @ 11:29 PM - RE: romplers

realtrance

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Oh. I don't do any of that (listen to radio, watch TV or go to MP3.com) -- guess I'm not missing anything, then!

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Message 11/45 26-Mar-02 @ 02:29 PM - RE: romplers

Pongoid

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I've used them, and real synthesizers, and know the difference.

Ape

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Message 12/45 26-Mar-02 @ 03:42 PM - RE: romplers

realtrance

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Pongo,

What is the difference?

Thanks,

rt

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Message 13/45 26-Mar-02 @ 06:38 PM - RE: romplers

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yeah, sorry Pongo... but i could put you in a room with my k2000 and you'd still be able to create new sounds 5 years later if you were making them every day for 8 hours a day.

while we're on the subject - NI's FM7 is a superb pad machine... wondeful ambient textures.

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 14/45 26-Mar-02 @ 07:29 PM - RE: romplers

Pongoid

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Yes it is, but I wouldn't call the K2000 a rompler, or the fm7 either.

Romplers are typically devices using a sampled synth sound, and offering some basic editing feature, like the Roland JV series, or the Yamaha CS1X, or Some of the older Kurzweil modules, or the Korg M1, or a whole list of others. The K2000 relies on a chunk of sampled ROM as an oscillation type source, but then apllies some of the heaviest modulation facilities, and sound tweaking options I've ever seen in any synth, as well as the ability to add to that sample with a minor modification. Thus I don't put the k2000 in the same class as the Trinity.

The Trinity had some minor tweakability, but it's not like starting with a basic wave form, then adding another, and then maybe using one to modulate another, then filtering it, and then, well you get the picture. It's not the Prophecy. Essentially the majority of the sounds in a Rompler are presets and stay pretty much as presets. You tweak them a little, but essentially they are sampled sounds that were cooked up in some synth manufacturer's labs from big modulars, or a Kyma system, or stuff that the public doesn't hear about, then burnt in as READ ONLY MEMORY that cannot be altered/tweeked/ modified. Synthesizers are normally devices that let you start from scratch, and build the sound just the way you want it from start to finish. You want big? You make big. You want small? You make small. You want wierd, interesting, and original? You work at it, but you can do it. If I was working in a high volume studio, where the goal is to just get the project done, where individuality or uniqueness is of no concern as long as it fills the clients' needs, I could see the use of one or several romplers, and then buying updates from time to time, as artistry has absolutle nothing to do with the job. It's just prostitution of sound, using simple formulae (if you know them) to induce moods, and peak momentary interest in a product, for the purpose of selling it. Romplers are great for that. (Kinda reminds me of trance. Why is that? Oh well, I digress.) Synthesizers are artists's tools for creating original works in sound. How much more would you like me to explain?

Ape

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Message 15/45 26-Mar-02 @ 07:54 PM - RE: romplers

influx

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elitist

but I definitely can not argue with ya

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Message 16/45 26-Mar-02 @ 09:33 PM - RE: romplers

realtrance

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OK understood.

As you say, though, if you treat the sample simply as a sound generating source (choose "Saw Wave," say), can't you consider the sound engines from korg/yamaha/roland sufficiently synthesizer-like to be functional as true synthesizers? Many people do, but if I understand your info correctly, said synthesizers from a true electronic artist's point of view are severely limited in what they can provide for real sound sculpting.....?

The problem also, though, is that with many sampled sounds, the goal is to emulate non-electronic instruments, and it's _tough_ to use those flexibly as sound generators with a full-scale synth architecture. OTOH E-Mu, for instance, does a pretty good job of demonstrating how you can layer, for example, a bunch of one-shot percussion samples to produce an interesting synth sound. Would you consider E-Mu's sample-based modules (basically cut-down versions of their E4K/E5 etc. architecture), like the Kurz stuff, an exception to the rule in this way?

What I don't get is people buying/selling sample CDs made off of VAs, that seems twice-bleached and then left out in the Arizona sun to dry.

rt

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Message 17/45 26-Mar-02 @ 11:18 PM - RE: romplers

Mindspawn

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ROMplers are great for "acoustic" instrument sounds when you don't have that acoustic instrument to work with. They can also do what Pongoid describes, i.e., bread and butter sounds for the "grafix muso." You can also program them if you're patient enough to get inside the architecture. "Regular" synths generally have their architecture layed out so that it's easier to get to the "programing" aspects...

I own four "ROMplers", an XP50, MC505, RS7K, and EMU Orbit. I rarely ever use the XP50 or the EMU, cept for certain pad and string bits, or the occasional "acoustic" instrument sound. I do use the 505 and the RS a lot, more so because of their sequencers (although I'm pretty pleased with a lot of the sounds you can coax from either of these boxes). However, most of my sounds are generated from VA or analog gear, largely due to the flexibility offered there. Sure my RS or 505 can do a very decent Kick drum or whatnot, but my Xbase can do the "right" kick for a particular track faster and easier, due to the immediacy of the way the machine is layed out and how it works.... Tuning the kick drums on the XP50 for instance is, at least for me, quite tedious. With the Xbase I simply adjust the pitch knob until it's sounding proper. Plus, I rarely need to do any EQ or compression on the Xbase drum sounds.

Me two pesos...

Peace

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Message 18/45 28-Mar-02 @ 03:51 AM - RE: romplers

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ok gotcha

- oooh I love my K2 - gotta get it fixed.

___________________________________

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Message 19/45 28-Mar-02 @ 11:03 AM - RE: romplers

Pongoid

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Sure, for acoustic modeling, it has to be a ROMpler. In fact, I'd love to get a Virtuosso for composing classical stuff, cuz there's no reason to try to recreate ten different violins with 10+ layers of dynamics in each of the patches, but for synth sounds, it's another story.

Ape

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Message 20/45 28-Mar-02 @ 06:05 PM - RE: romplers

david G

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i suggest a prophecy for the trombones.

plus a z1 for the strings.

and an, erm, 777 for the grand piano.

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Message 21/45 28-Mar-02 @ 08:41 PM - RE: romplers

Mindspawn

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Well, me own opinion is that even for stuff like viloins, cellos, pianos, what not, ROMplers still suck... Get real players... Ten vilolinists will sound waaay better than 10 layers of ROM viloin... (okay, okay, that was all a bit tongue in cheek, just had to say it...).

Peace

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Message 22/45 28-Mar-02 @ 09:03 PM Edit: 29-Mar-02 | 07:55 AM - RE: romplers

david G

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yes,

generally speaking, romplers really suck. can be useful tough. i used to have a jx303 (aaaaaaaarrrrrrggggghh groovebox alert), which was nice, had some good sounds and was very tweakable.

in the end - yes you heard that before - the only limit is your creativity, romplers or not.

what about a "ANALOGUE vs. VA" tread? or a "SIMPSONS vs. SOUTH PARK" tread?...

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Message 23/45 29-Mar-02 @ 02:55 PM - RE: romplers

Defector Z

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k - you got a k2000 too? Lovely. I thought I was the only one...

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Message 24/45 30-Mar-02 @ 01:58 AM - RE: romplers

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yes... there are other... we meet under the church in the crypt every wed' night

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Message 25/45 30-Mar-02 @ 07:04 PM - RE: romplers

influx

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sheeit. "K"2000?

that's no coincidence, folks!

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Message 26/45 31-Mar-02 @ 04:16 PM - RE: romplers

Pongoid

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Whoa!!! That's....like...COSMIC, dude!!!
Yeah, when you can afford ten violinists for the session, you're definately into the good stuff, but for simple production, and composition purposes, a decent AM will get you by, but then a sample CD would be much cheaper as well.

Ape

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Message 27/45 01-Apr-02 @ 02:02 AM - RE: romplers

brentym

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..."K"2000...

lol

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Message 28/45 01-Apr-02 @ 02:04 AM - RE: romplers

brentym

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synth de-programming

a mind is a terrible thing to waste

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Message 29/45 01-Apr-02 @ 03:27 AM - RE: romplers

realtrance

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"de-program....re-program...FLASHLIGHT!" One nation under the funk!

rt

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Message 30/45 01-Apr-02 @ 09:37 AM - RE: romplers

Mindspawn

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Pongoid - it is definitely more "budget-conscious" to use a ROMpler.... Personally I like the string sounds from old Mellotrons more than real strings anyway.... Would love to have one of those in me own crypt.... actually, it'd probably cost more than hiring string players....

Peace

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Message 31/45 01-Apr-02 @ 05:27 PM - RE: romplers

Pongoid

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....and be way more fun to replace the tape loops than violin strings.

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Message 32/45 01-Apr-02 @ 07:17 PM - RE: romplers

99devils

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Find yourself a high school with a good music program, and grab a couple kids for a few hours. Great experience for them, free strings for you.

-Craig

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Message 33/45 03-Apr-02 @ 12:25 PM - RE: romplers

Pongoid

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Not a 'one take' thing but fun. Depends on your time budget as well. Do you spend time playing with kids, or getting your composition out while the idea is still fresh?

Ape

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Message 34/45 03-Apr-02 @ 03:01 PM - RE: romplers

damballah

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of course you also need to be aware of phrases like "restraining order" and "terms of probation". ;)

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Message 35/45 03-Apr-02 @ 06:35 PM - RE: romplers

knowa

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LOL(ita)

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Message 36/45 03-Apr-02 @ 10:25 PM - RE: romplers

99devils

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Very funny

My old orchestra conductor would do this for people he knew, and for his own work. He'd hand out sheet music, and rehearse it a couple times, and then record it.

C'mon, you're making dance music.. You're not asking them to play fucking Pagannini!

-Craig

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Message 37/45 04-Apr-02 @ 12:13 AM - RE: romplers

Mindspawn

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Got something against Paganini!??? Just jesting... But you're very right Craig, a cool source for something a bit different. I've got a couple choral bits I'm gonna try going that route with. Kind of darkish Arvo Part stuff...

Anyhoos, I also agree with Ape about the "quick for creation" route, though. ROMplers can get the sound sorted and a lot of the arrangement set, quick... ya can always go back and get some "real" bodies to do some overdubs of the bits later....

Peace

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Message 38/45 04-Apr-02 @ 04:23 PM - RE: romplers

damballah

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that's kinda the hollywood film-scorer approach, innit? except they got racks of E4s or dedicated CPUs with gigasmapler loaded Miroslav Vitous orchestral smaples. they're not just number 7s. hi.

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Message 39/45 06-Apr-02 @ 11:15 AM - RE: romplers

Pongoid

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Yup, a perfect example is Mr. Elfman. If you can, that's how you do it. Look at cats like Peter Gabriel. Even seen his studio? Even pics? TO DIE FOR!!!!! OMG. However he's got a 'little' one as well for just banging out his ideas, then the big one for REALLY making it happen with the session cats/other artisits, etc.. If you don't have the big studio yourself, at least get the ideas out. That's the hardest part. Once you've got that you have plenty of time to fawn over engineering all to your little heart's desire.

Ape

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Message 40/45 13-Apr-02 @ 05:43 AM - RE: romplers

isospin

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http://sound-on-sound2.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=215094572&f=884099644&m=2883073704&p=1

read that then think twice about any sample player technology.

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Message 41/45 13-Apr-02 @ 10:32 AM - RE: romplers

influx

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"that's kinda the hollywood film-scorer approach, innit? except they got racks of E4s or dedicated CPUs with gigasmapler loaded Miroslav Vitous orchestral smaples. they're not just number 7s. hi. "

hey damballah..remember that little convo we had recently?

you ing hit the nail RIGHT on the head. Funny how no matter where you go there are patterns

E4s and gigasampler.

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Message 42/45 13-Apr-02 @ 04:40 PM - RE: romplers

damballah

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heh heh. yup.

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Message 43/45 13-Apr-02 @ 04:48 PM - RE: romplers

damballah

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I bet the sons of bitches get all the donuts and blowjobs they want, too.

isospin: that's a different issue entirely.

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Message 44/45 13-Apr-02 @ 06:31 PM - RE: romplers

moses

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people of northern grapes only investigate denver. i saw a caterpillar on monday peeling lemons. ever try ether? partially rising in custard kickers.

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Message 45/45 13-Apr-02 @ 06:41 PM - RE: romplers

isospin1

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a rompler starts with a sampled sound, if you read the entire thread you would be as shocked as I was.

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