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Subject: I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

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Original Message 1/19 28-May-02 @ 02:43 PM - I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

Drop

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I'm having trouble with my musical skills. I've read all the related posts about chord theory and I still have some very basic questions I'm afraid.

Here goes:

If I decide to write a track in say Dminor, is this right? This is what I've been doing but can only get to a certain level.

I take the root note of the tetra cord which is D and make that the main notes of the bassline with possibly 1 note out of the 2 bar phrase moving up to the next note in the chord.

Then for my stabs and pads and stuff, I have been using minor 7ths and Dominant 9ths. I make sure that I take the root(bass) notes out of that chord.

The problem is that that's as far as I get. I know references have been made to flat 5 chords but these aren't in my chord books. What are they?

Also, is there like a common key that Techy Housey stuff is written in? I like Dminor but maybe this is too dark cos my shit doesn't sound the same as the records in my collection.

Say I did use Dminor, can I also use DbMinor chords in my arrangements? Will it sound musically correct?

Also which chords (keys) go nicely together? I quite like Bb and Fm but I'm not sure. It doesn't sound like how I want it. Its a bit too jazzy deep house style.

I know I must use my ears but I need a push start.

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Message 2/19 28-May-02 @ 07:14 PM - RE: I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

knowa

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I'm no theory expert, but in response to one part of your post

"Also which chords (keys) go nicely together? I quite like Bb and Fm but I'm not sure."

there's a difference between chords and keys. e.g. "All of Me" played in the key of C natural contains Cmaj7, E dom7, A dom7, A min7...you book should have a bit about the "circle of fifths" (? I think that's what it's called) that will explain how those first few chords of "Lean on Me" go togther so nice.

"It doesn't sound like how I want it. Its a bit too jazzy deep house style."

the differences between say Em and Fm are more in PITCH than in FEELING. e.g. minor chords have a "darker" sound than "happy" major chords (Maj7ths have a jazzy deep house sound) no matter what the root note is. I don't think you're looking for a specific KEY, but for specific types of chords (or intervals, see below).

why don't you just pick one note (C being an obvious easy choice) and focus on different INTERVALS to see which create the mood you're after.

play C natural and G natural. power chord. very "normal"

drop the G to F# and you'll hear the evil, leaning, brooding flatted fifth..a very different mood.

so I'm saying that you're probably not looking for "The Key" of tech-house records, but for the types of intervals they use.

and of course, which synth for tech-house? goes without saying, because it is clearly the XP-50 which I have posted in the classified section that you desire. "It's good for tech house".

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Message 3/19 28-May-02 @ 08:45 PM - RE: I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

xoxos

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not that i'm any good really, but my key skills are developing.. my latest realisation has been 'loosening up' and not being such a priss about what keys go where.. esp. for jazzy e.p. and 'live' keyboard playing.. i'm finding that i'm getting my sound to be more like i want it if i just flop my hand all over the keyboard and don't mind if i hit a few extra keys. often holding down two keys right next to each other is exactly the sound i'm lookinmg for.

it's like if you're jamming away to something, put a towel over the keyboard and just go up and down, more on intervals than anything.

make some sense out of this for you

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Message 4/19 28-May-02 @ 09:56 PM - RE: I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

knowa

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word, fake jazz. especially in 6/4.

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Message 5/19 29-May-02 @ 12:26 PM - RE: I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

sitar

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I'd say you need to move around on the keyboard. Much good music uses some interesting chord changes. It's good to know what you're doing so keep learning, but even once you know all about how chords and melodies work together you still play things by ear. Comes from lots of listening too. It's been mentioned before...make sure you understand the circle of fifths. Then you'll know how to progress smoothly between any chords. Once you know that you can toss the whole system but you'll know why tossing it is appropriate at any moment, and this always comes down to your ears and personal taste anyway. Remember that although it not the only way, the 5th note in your chosen key will always lead easily into the tonic. So will the 4th. Others will too but those are the most recognizable lead ins back to your tonic. Or 4, 5, 1. It's not rocket science so put away any notion that it's difficult. Just takes some practice and familiarity. When I'm writing chord/melody progressions I'm never thinking about what chord should come next. I just play what my mind hears. If it didn't load to the front page I would put up a magnificent film intro I wrote. Never once did I think about "which chord" while I was writing it. Still the familiarity makes for confidence about the whole matter.

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Message 6/19 29-May-02 @ 07:03 PM - RE: I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

knowa

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I wanna hear that film thing sitar.

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Message 7/19 29-May-02 @ 07:49 PM - RE: I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

bedwyr

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well. i think that learning about circle of fifths etc. will definately make your tunes sound jazzy deep house. not that it's a bad thing to learn, it's just that it can be difficult to get away from that and make what you want to hear.

chord changes are for songs (and jazzy deep house), or maybe for a hook in a house tune. think of finally (kot, the one from last year) one chord for ages, all the way through the verse then three chords in the chorus. then back to the one chord.

you can imply chord changes from the bassline. think of a little arpeggio playing c e g up and down. then the bassline can hit all sorts of different notes underneath makeing the chord (c) 'change'.

if i think of anything else i'll post, but i can't help thinking that if you want to do tech-house and your asking about flattened fifths, you're thinking too much about theory and not making enough mad noises. minor chords is the way to go though (moody, innit) and there's nothing wrong with using dm and Dbm in the same tune.

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Message 8/19 29-May-02 @ 08:09 PM - RE: I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

sitar

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Yup. That too. and you don't have to write a track around chords or a melody. It's just the times you slip those elements in for a moment they should say something. Also try playing a minor chord with only the 1st, 3rd and fifth. Then add the 2nd, or the 6th or any combo of any notes until you find something pleasing.

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Message 9/19 30-May-02 @ 08:07 AM - RE: I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

Drop

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Thank you people. Your all so right. If I stopped worrying about theory so much and got on with just writing the tunes, I'd have had more stuff done by now. Thanks again.

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Message 10/19 30-May-02 @ 09:12 AM - RE: I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

Drop

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"think of a little arpeggio playing c e g up and down. then the bassline can hit all sorts of different notes underneath makeing the chord (c) 'change'."

Bedwyr, can you explain that again, in idiot terms? So your saying if a little arpeggio is playing a C major tetra chord then the bassline is doing what?

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Message 11/19 30-May-02 @ 10:29 AM - RE: I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

bedwyr

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well, if you arpeggio is c e g and your bass line hits a c then the chord is c major. then if your bassline hits an A then the resulting chord is Am7. hit an F in the bass then it's a Fmaj9 (sort of, with no 3rd) what i'm getting at is you don't need to change the 'chord' on top, just the bass note. just another way of looking at things.

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Message 12/19 30-May-02 @ 10:57 AM - RE: I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

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Oh, I see! Thanks Bedwyr. Your always so bloody helpful.

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Message 13/19 05-Jun-02 @ 05:03 PM - RE: I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

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Bedwyr, Sitar and Knowa......Thanks. All you suggestions worked well. Bedwyr, that's a good way of looking at it and it worked.

Sitar, thanks for the "adding the 2nd note" tip. It adds a really nice colour to the chords and stuff. Cool.

I'm onto 7th Major, minor chords now. It's cool cos all I do is add a note 1 semitone or whole note below the root.

Mmmm, I'm progressing.

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Message 14/19 05-Jun-02 @ 07:36 PM - RE: I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

JJ Freqy

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OK then-
There was someone who posted that if you knew your circle of fifths you would have more jazzy tunes etc...

I just learned the cirlce of fifths and to me it seems that all the circle of fifths really does is show you the order of your sharps and flats going up every fifth whole step, right?

I learned that if you're in a certian key, let's say C major, and you want to do a key change you use the fifth key in the C major chord and that's the key that you can change to that will sound ok. The fifth key is G so you can go to G major or its relative minor. You can do this in all your major keys.

To find a keys relative minor you take the first note in the scale and count back three half steps or semitones. So, C majors relative minor is A minor. The relative minor givews you a little more to play with or to use in a track. please correct me if I am incorrect, thanks

JJfreqy

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Message 15/19 05-Jun-02 @ 08:02 PM - RE: I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

sitar

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That's right JJfreqy. There are lots of other ways to change keys/chords but the circle of fifths is surefire.

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Message 16/19 05-Jun-02 @ 08:23 PM - RE: I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

knowa

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it's just a useful thing to know. like I-IV-V's, II-V-I's...it's not like circle of fifths=jazzy.

for instant jazz try paralell 4ths. oh, that's fake jazz btw. Lounge Lizards

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Message 17/19 10-Jun-02 @ 04:21 AM - RE: I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

honkeyexplosion

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You don't need to rely exclusively on the circle of 5th to determine the proper key change. You don't even need to rely on parallel or relative minor key. All you need to know is how to utilize a pivot chord. All a pivot chord is, is simply a chord common to two particular keys. This eases the transition, allowing the elements of harmony to easily change. Also know chord construction.

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Message 18/19 11-Jun-02 @ 09:00 PM - RE: I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

sitar

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and diminished chords...chords built up in steps of a minor third between each note. Like the breakdown in Bach's Fugue in D minor. Bach did a breakdown, hehe!

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Message 19/19 11-Jun-02 @ 09:44 PM - RE: I'm Not A Very Good Musician.......

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Must have been a pretty darn nervous one, then...

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