The best way to route the signal...

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Subject: The best way to route the signal...

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Original Message 1/31 15-Aug-02 @ 12:29 AM - The best way to route the signal...

JJ Freqy

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I have a very simple question about my studio setup. I have my synths, drum machine, sampler, and guitar all running into my mixer and then to my soundcard IN. The soundcard OUT connects to monitors. I did it this way so I could hear exactly what the computer is recording into the software (Cool Edit Pro 2).

Does this sound like a good way to have my studio setup? If not why and what should I do to get the best sound out of my studio as far as monitoring goes? I appreciate all the help!

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Message 2/31 15-Aug-02 @ 08:54 AM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

influx

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sounds like a plan to me!

OR..does your mixer have a 2 track in? you could send the soundcard outs to that then...

that way you have a knob for output control. How are you controlling the monitor level right now?

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Message 3/31 15-Aug-02 @ 03:50 PM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

99devils

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Careful with that though.. If you run the master outs on the mixer to sound card in, and bring the sound card out back into the mixer you'll have feedback.

-Craig

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Message 4/31 15-Aug-02 @ 05:46 PM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

Normal

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Does your mixer have an extra pair of outputs? Mine has ones called alt3-4. I do what you do, except send the outputs from the soundcard back to a pair of mixer ins routed to the alt3-4 outs of the mixer, which then go to the amp. You do have to be careful, cause you will get feedback if the soundcard signal isn't sent to the alt outputs. It's nice tho, as i can use the mixer to control monitoring level. Nothing wrong with what you're doing tho.

Al

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Message 5/31 15-Aug-02 @ 06:55 PM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

psylichon

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Noraml -

an even better way to handle your setup would be to run the alt 3/4 outputs of your mixer to the INputs of your soundcard. Then run your soundcard outputs to 2 channels on your mixer (or 2-track tape return or aux return... whatever). Then just route the main outs (or control room outs if you have em) to your amp. That way, if you want to record something, hit the "alt 3/4" button on that channel, lifting it from the main outputs, and running it to your soundcard via outputs 3/4. Then you'd hear that sound through your soundcard's monitoring setup, and fed back to your mixer via the soundcards outs. Make sense? It's a classic split console setup.

I have the first Mackie 1202 mixer... I'd kill for those alt 3/4 outs... very useful. As it is, I use a patchbay to get my synths into the computer.

psylichon

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Message 6/31 15-Aug-02 @ 07:22 PM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

influx

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no..see craig...I said if he had a 2 track monitoring return..you dont get feedback through that because it doesnt go to the mains, only the control room out

all this having no idea what sort of mixer

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Message 7/31 15-Aug-02 @ 08:15 PM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

99devils

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That's probably where you and I are both getting confused..

So, umm, what kind of mixer is this?

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Message 8/31 15-Aug-02 @ 08:38 PM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

nomad

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it's kind of nice to have the monitors post-soundcard so you can see what the A/D is doing to it.

i am not sure there is really much of a difference but i have just about convinced myself that i can hear one

(mine set up the same way... by necessity...no tape I/O... though i have thought about putting the computer in the master insert loop... same idea, just no switching... and then i get a real fader for master... but the cabling is pretty weird so i haven't bothered yet...)

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Message 9/31 15-Aug-02 @ 08:43 PM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

swanofnever

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my cheap behringer's got "2-track send + rtn"...

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Message 10/31 15-Aug-02 @ 08:57 PM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

psylichon

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same idea as the alt 3/4, swan

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Message 11/31 15-Aug-02 @ 09:25 PM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

99devils

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I'm probably not going to be of all that much help, as I've got the 01V/ADAT I/O setup.. I bring things into the mixer like they were coming from any other instrument, and I can route back at will.

I know this does nobody any good in this thread.. Just rambling.

-Craig

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Message 12/31 16-Aug-02 @ 02:39 AM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

influx

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heh. good stuff, huh?

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Message 13/31 16-Aug-02 @ 04:43 AM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

JJ Freqy

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Sorry for the delay in my reply

I have two Behringer MX 2004 A mixers, they do me good! That's what I'm using right now.

Someone else told me to run the soundcard back into the mixer, but I still don't understand why I would do this because the way I have it now I know exactly what I'm recording into the SW.

J

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Message 14/31 16-Aug-02 @ 05:24 AM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

psylichon

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You would know with my approach, also. When you hit the routing button (alt 3/4, buss to 2 track, whatever), it takes whatever signal you're recording out of the main outputs adn sends it to your computer. Then you monitor it through your computer, just like you're doing now, only it's routing back to your mixer. It's tough to get the head around at first, but this is the classic way of recording with a mixer.

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Message 15/31 16-Aug-02 @ 05:24 AM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

influx

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well then dont worry about it!

dont you have to open your soundcard control panel and adjust the volume there?

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Message 16/31 16-Aug-02 @ 09:23 AM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

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psylichon - I've got the old Mackie CR1604 (not VLZ), and with this you've got to run the main outs to the soundcard, and the alt3-4 out to the amp... the FX sends don't work for the alt3-4 bus, so i couldn't record FX otherwise.

Al

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Message 17/31 16-Aug-02 @ 08:30 PM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

psylichon

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I see what you're saying. I hadn't considered effects. I record dry.

But doesn't a 1604 have 4 busses? Or is that only the VLZ? Isn't that what the "04" stands for?

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Message 18/31 16-Aug-02 @ 08:51 PM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

JJ Freqy

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A lot of nice helpful infomation, thank you all! Now, I'm going to show how amatuer I am in the mixing depatment by asking this question:

What exactly does the BUS on a mixer do? Is it the same as the ALT 3/4 on my Behringer mixer (for all you Behringer headz)?

I hear people talking about it all the time, but I only use my mixer in the least complicated way- sound in and sound out and maybe a little AUX SEND and RETURN action. That's about the extent of it... I probably need to figure the mixer out a little better to get the most out of it, huh?

Thanks you all for your help!!

J

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Message 19/31 16-Aug-02 @ 11:12 PM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

swanofnever

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a bus is just a path through which things flow; like, for bits to get from your harddrive to your pentium chip, they need to "take the bus". uh...
okay i give up.

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Message 20/31 17-Aug-02 @ 12:03 AM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

brett

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think of the BUS as a (many-to-one) relation. all channels can send to the aux 3/4 bus you mentioned, or the stereo out bus. So a audio pathway that can have many channels routed to it is a bus. So group channels on mixers are busses, So your recording software has a virtual software mixer with it's own busses. the main stereo bus, aux's used to send to plug-in fx, groups/virtual mains etc. Your returns are just a channel to connect the aux busses back into the mixer to connect to the main stereo bus. hope that helps.

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Message 21/31 17-Aug-02 @ 12:28 AM Edit: 17-Aug-02 | 12:34 AM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

Steve Roughley

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I have an MX2004 as well and I'll let you know what I am doing, to give you some ideas. I have all of my hardware and my soundcard going into the stereo and mono channels as appropriate, and the main output of the mixer (the XLRs) going to my Amp. I then have the mixers Alt 3/4 outputs going to my soundcard for recording. This means that whenever I want to record one of my hardware outs (lets say a synth) I just select the corresponding Mute/Alt3-4 button and that re-routes the synth signal to the Alt 3/4 output and on to the soundcard which is routed back to the mixer. I find this works beautifuly.

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 22/31 17-Aug-02 @ 09:57 PM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

Brett

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if ain't broke, don't fix it!

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Message 23/31 18-Aug-02 @ 12:30 AM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

Brett

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by the Steve, why not use the 2tr input for monitoring after the recorder, IE:the soundcard. That is what it is for. the aux are for fx sends. So if you send the stereo out to the sound card then connect the soundcard out to the 2tr in and the 2tr out to the monitors, you are now using it as intended. but like I said , if it ain't broke don't fix it. So if it works for you then leave it alone. but our condused freind here should at least know the correct way to hook up a mixer.

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Message 24/31 18-Aug-02 @ 10:19 AM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

Steve Roughley

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The 2-Track sends/returns are only crappy unbalanced Phono connectors. I use the Aux sends and Returns for my FX. I think the design of this desk might be a little odd.

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 25/31 18-Aug-02 @ 10:55 AM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

influx

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nah..theyre all RCA connectors. every mixer Ive ever seen with tape ins..

never understood that..and its a good point, but...think of how many solid recordings have been done with those exact same RCA connectors!

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Message 26/31 18-Aug-02 @ 12:34 PM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

Steve Roughley

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Sorry, I allways refer to RCA as Phono.

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 27/31 18-Aug-02 @ 04:53 PM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

Brett

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you are missing the point. You are only listening to those, you are recording from the stereo out. The reason you need to do this is simple. The aux and main may sound diferant for many reasons, but most importnatly the last micron of an inch at the top of the fader can cause the mixer to overload the output amps creating harmonics. I was recording from the digital out on my computer and monitoring the stereo and was wondering why my mix sounded less compressed after recording. the asnalog output stage was creating harminics that sounded good while monitoring but were not present in my recorded audio. The solution was to record from the analog outs and monitor from the returns to ensure what was going down was in fact what I was hearing in the monitors. It is funny how my digital mixer sounded better when recording from it's analog outs because of the harmonics it creates sound a lot like analog board would. When you push a channel to the red it actually limits the signal and creates low end harmonic distorion and softens the highs. Not quite the same as a quality analog board, but very usable to add grit to a all digital peice of music.

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Message 28/31 18-Aug-02 @ 07:40 PM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

influx

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Steve I wasnt correcting you!

RCA and phono..same thing

heh. Im not THAT bad

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Message 29/31 18-Aug-02 @ 08:06 PM Edit: 18-Aug-02 | 08:23 PM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

Steve Roughley

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That's cool Influx. I know your not one of the bad guys (that doesn't mean that they are not here. They are , somewhere, watching, watching and waiting till they find a weakness, then BANG! were all in trouble!) :�)

And just to clarify my earlier post regarding my mixer routing, I am only using the Alt 3/4 bus to record audio (i.e. a sequence from my JP8080) into my computer for sequencing in Logic and not for final mix recording. It is really convenient that way. I now know what you are saying Brett, sorry for the confusion, but my setup doesn't allow for the kind of routing you suggested at the moment. I'll give that a go when I get a better recording/monitoring setup. Cheers Brett!

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 30/31 20-Aug-02 @ 04:40 PM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

Brett

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for tracking you are set up is fine. I guess then that you probably export to mix down from within the DAW?

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Message 31/31 20-Aug-02 @ 05:54 PM - RE: The best way to route the signal...

Steve Roughley

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You guessed it pal! That's good to know. There is nothing I hate more than re-wiring my setup. I just burn it to CD after compiling the final Wav file mixdown.

Regards.

Steve.

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