Forums - Deejay & deejay kit
Subject: Horrible Newbie Questions
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Original Message 1/34 11-Sep-02 @ 07:37 AM - Horrible Newbie Questions
I'm a horrible newbie, and I have questions.
I'm a long time electronic music fan, and ever since I went to my first rave, I have been very interested in mixing some of my own tracks. My problem was that I didn't know where to start. I kind of kicked the idea around for a while, and eventually grabbed "Techno Ejay" from a software store and installed it. The Ejay program is a lot of fun, but I can shake the feeling that assembling pre-recorded samples is a bit lame. I've put together a few songs, but I would really like to get out there and start making some real music. So, the horrible questions are:
What software should I use? (I saw a program with a well known Dj, who was assembling his songs with a computer)
Whenever I see Djs at a rave, they seem to have some hardware (turntables and such) up on stage with them. Do I need to buy a bunch of equipment to get out of the basement and record some decent stuff?
And if the above is true, what sort of things do I buy? I'm sure like everything else, certain kinds of equipment are better than others. Also, I work a low paying job, so I can't blow $1000 on speakers or something.
Well, thanks for reading and possibly responding!
Yours,
Mr. Seasme
"Is that a gun in your violin case, or are you just happy to see me?"
Message 2/34 11-Sep-02 @ 08:04 AM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
OR...theres always the old cheap hardware samplers
thing is..youre talking about two different things. Do you want to be a DJ (Play other peoples stuff on vinyl or whatever?) or actually write your own tracks?
bedroom productions can be and often are EVERY bit as good as any "pro" stuff..sometimes better!
basically you need:
a sampler (for using odd bits of sounds...drums...mangling other stuff)
a synthesizer or two...soft or hard...to make some cool sounds...
a sequencer to put it all together (do it all in digital audio and you can use plugins for fx)
effects...delay, reverb, other type stuff
its daunting at first...but thats why I say reason or Orion since they both have everything all rolled up into one
but...youd definitely want to go past them eventually as well!
Message 3/34 11-Sep-02 @ 08:13 AM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
psylichon
Message 4/34 11-Sep-02 @ 08:41 PM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
Yeah know..1200s will cost ya. But they will last for years! invest! find ways..go naked..buy music and listen to no end..
peace
Message 5/34 11-Sep-02 @ 10:38 PM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
Message 6/34 12-Sep-02 @ 12:01 AM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
I'm gonna go get me some good software! Thanks all.
Mr. Seasme
Message 7/34 12-Sep-02 @ 12:39 AM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
and personally I dont see any diff between a laptop and records...as long as there is a human element involved somehow...
aww hell who knows
hey pongoid Im using your quote
"make art out of science not science out of art"
you better tell me now if it was you who thunk it up!
Message 8/34 12-Sep-02 @ 06:53 AM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
That's where the music comes from, does it not?
Message 9/34 12-Sep-02 @ 11:09 AM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
I just meant the difference between composing and DJing...
whatevers clever. I would hope that you would want it to be as much yours as possible, bottom line, but the whole damn thing is based on sampling mostly, so pretty much anything is game
just. be. creative.
Message 10/34 13-Sep-02 @ 01:39 AM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
Message 11/34 13-Sep-02 @ 12:48 PM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
Ape
Message 12/34 13-Sep-02 @ 06:13 PM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
And there is a huge difference between playing records and making the music that is on them hence the big difference between a dj and a producer. And btw if u want to make remixes of loops and sounds u like from other peoples work then u will need to play from cd or lappy yourself cuz u will never get stuff like that out on vinyl unless u r a superstar dj or soemthing (or if u copyright and the guy who made the track). I have done some of that (taking out loops from other peoples tracks and remixing) myself did a techno set in reaktor with a modified version of the sixpack ensamble on my lappy with loops from techno that i liked (mostly swedish stuff from drumcode hybrid and some of my friends). A good place to start if u got no money is with one of the free programs out there like buzz,psycle,noistrecker mad tracker trust me i know a few people that have gotten tracks released that were made with only fasttracker 2 and nothing else (sounded really good to). And being a maker of music(or producer) is all about hard work and if u dont like to sit and work with a music programme for say 4 hours straigth u can just forget about it and start spinning records instead (that is hard work to migth i add just not in the same way)
And finally plz start by making your own tracks from scratch and then when u feel that u can put a decent track together u can start with incorporating other peoples stuff in your tracks.
My experience is that people that do it the other way around often end up using nothing but other peoples loops and not contributing with anything other than the structure of the music wich to me is not very original or constructive just makes everything sound the same and swamps the scene with a lot of mediocre same sounding tracks (cuz trust me the most producers who make these loops from scratch save all the best stuff for there own productions) and finally yes u can even program 70s sounding drumbreaks from scratch with practice and patience so if that is what u r into it is no exscuse for using loops from the start j
well good luck to u and i hope u get into producing music soon and have as much fun doing it as i have
Message 13/34 13-Sep-02 @ 06:15 PM Edit: 13-Sep-02 | 06:17 PM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
Message 14/34 13-Sep-02 @ 06:16 PM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
or if u dont care about the copyright and the guy who made it
Message 15/34 13-Sep-02 @ 10:37 PM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
jesus pongoid, do you really have to talk to everyone like theyre fucking idiots who dont know SHIT and youre the only one that has a clue?
I say fuck off for that one, bud.
my fucking point was that electronic music...jungle..hip hop...is mainly based on sampling
SURE theres tons of groundbreaking synthesis being used, but the basis is and has been sampling for the most part. That is changing, of course, but
you really need to rethink the way you respond to people, my man
Message 16/34 14-Sep-02 @ 12:09 AM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
There was no electronic music before synthesis. Hip-hop may be sampled based, but drum'n'bass doesn't go real far without synthesis either, in fact I've I've heard completely synthesized d'n'b, with no samples, and it sounds great too. That's where original sounds come from. Synthesizers make the impossible into reality, mathematic perfection, made to convey feelings inexplicable otherwise. How can you even begin to just discount synthesis like that? Even a sampler is just a synth with a complex and versatile oscillator. Come on, bro. I think you're overreacting a bit here.
Ape
Message 17/34 14-Sep-02 @ 01:15 AM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
Samplers ARE synths that let you record and playback an oscillator. Synth's are where it's at for me. I use a sampler, but mostly to expand the voices of my synths or to throw in vocal phrazes and wierd bits of chatter... stuff I can't get from my analog mods... or to use drum hits that are not in my analog or rompler synths...
I think in the end it's those who PROGRAM synths exceptionaly that really move me...
e
Message 18/34 14-Sep-02 @ 01:28 AM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
maybe YOU need to chill on that shit?
Message 19/34 14-Sep-02 @ 01:58 AM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
don't you think that get's you more into utilising the skills of composition or dropping in/out things and building with parts etc without having too much eyecandy to distract you??.... I really beleive firmly that basic simplicity is so important to hone a flexible creative talent. Like a good song can be played on a guitar right?
ok but produced for an album it's worked on but it still works as a basic guitar & vocal song. That kinda vibe. plus it's those who get out there that make a name for themselves.
however, you CAN still do that with the s/w i guess... it's a hard choice wether to go live or bedroom only.
Message 20/34 14-Sep-02 @ 02:10 AM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
I don't think synths were around before the therimin. So perhaps some modification to the facts on electronic music.
I found my best sounds by sampling from wonderful miked-up analog elements. Converted these sounds/edited/layered/preamped directly to my sampler and wham-o 12bit digital samples!
Ther's so many ways to go about processing. If i was to sample my synths and collect sounds..then its called sample synthesis vs. sampling..vs..synthesis. It's still a process to modifying a sound no matter what way u go about it...i think..
Message 21/34 14-Sep-02 @ 03:02 AM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
the reason pongoid takes offense to my statement is because he prides himself on making his own sounds...which is perfectly legit.
basic point is probably just do your best to avoid taking the 'easy' way out and using prefabs
Message 22/34 14-Sep-02 @ 06:02 AM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
Message 23/34 14-Sep-02 @ 07:27 AM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
It's really impressive what a great community you folks have here. I really didn't expect to get such a huge reply, and I'm thankful. So, just to get my own headware sorted, let me call a vote:
Is grabbing bit o' software with an electronic synth/sampler and all that jazz the way for a newbie to start, or should I honor the ancient ways and grab a hardware synth and sampler(all personal preferences aside, I'd have to learn to use either better than I know how to now) and all the other gear that I'd need. Oh, and to clear up something I think I misstated, I'm usually all about using my own sounds. Everyone probably feels this way, but when I'm using some software that comes with "1000 professionally recorded techno samples", I get pissed because 9 times out of 10, whomever recorded the samples put some beat in there somewhere that I hate, and it's a lot more work to edit that and then get it to flow again, than it is to just make a new one with whatever synth instrument I need.
No offense to the brave people who record things for the "ejay"s, but some of those sounds are a little wacky. I'll grab a set of basslines, and string them together, only to play them back, and feel like I'm sitting in the street cranking an organ-grinder.
-Seasme & his pet monkey
Message 24/34 14-Sep-02 @ 10:44 AM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
If u r serious about this stuff then either get a yamaha A-series sampler(a5000 has absolutly no need for external efx or mixing unless your standards are really high in wich case he never would have asked the question) and something to controll that with (simple midi sequenser will do i use cubasis vst and a RM1X for that) or if u want to go the soft route and buy Kontakt and a sequnser that works well with it
I would personally recomend u getting the Kontakt package since it really gets u everything u need to get started and holds an incredible potential yet still being easy to wrap your head around and get started with (loooadsa presets that kick serious ass)
Message 25/34 14-Sep-02 @ 12:02 PM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
and a sequencer
thatll sort you out. expand to taste.
honestly..software holds way more bang for the buck right nwo
Message 28/34 15-Sep-02 @ 05:51 PM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
If you get one synth with lots of patching options then you'll be expanding your opportunities and honing a personal sound without getting into the more is better nonsense. So I vote influx, it's the three s's all the way.
Message 29/34 15-Sep-02 @ 09:48 PM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
then learn that and dont get lost between million free softsynths loaded with presets!
Message 30/34 15-Sep-02 @ 10:18 PM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
Heh.
Thanks again folks. As soon as I get a solid track layed down, I'll post it up, and let the masters sort through it.
"Voked Voked get revoked, I got revoked..."
Message 31/34 15-Sep-02 @ 10:36 PM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
Virus KB $1000
yammy RM1x $450
Yammy A4000 or say Emu E5000 ultra $600-$700
mackie 1604vlz $500
of course youll need some speakers and some FX but the yamaha FX are pretty damn good and the virus sounds good on its own..
this is actually more than you would really need but this setup would keep you going for a LONG time
Message 32/34 15-Sep-02 @ 10:38 PM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
Virus KB $1000
yammy RM1x $450
Yammy A4000 or say Emu E5000 ultra $600-$700
mackie 1604vlz $500
of course youll need some speakers and some FX but the yamaha FX are pretty damn good and the virus sounds good on its own..
this is actually more than you would really need but this setup would keep you going for a LONG time
Message 33/34 15-Sep-02 @ 11:06 PM Edit: 15-Sep-02 | 11:07 PM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
that will give you sampling, synthesis, and -tight- midi timing, plus better fx than with one or two budget h/w units.
i guess what influx suggested is better for live stuff, but with sw/hw combo you can get into better production. of course, if you´re only starting out, then you might not wanna get caught up in matters of eq/compression/etc right from beginning.
Message 34/34 10-Oct-02 @ 04:07 PM - RE: Horrible Newbie Questions
TRY STUFF OUT.
IE: Download the demos. That'll let you see what software's like, you can buy the full version if it's good. Also: go to your local pro-music store, if you have one. Ask to try stuff out. It took me a while to realise what I really wanted was a hardware sequencer, and it took me forty-five minutes of fiddling with an RM1x before I realised a) I really NEEDED it and b) we were going to get on VERY well. Don't buy stuff blind - you'd never buy a car without test driving it, would you?
My suggest of a hardware beginner set up would be (all secondhand): Rm1x, S2000, A-Station, TC m300, 12-2 mixer of some form, and some keys. If you're really canny, in the UK, you could get that lot for not much more than £1000 s/h. Hell, it's almost what I have. And I'm still torn between the obvious hardware-synth thing, or just getting Reason.
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