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Subject: Human Rights Watch
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Original Message 1/79 01-Nov-02 @ 06:54 PM - Human Rights Watch
We're starting to get somewhere now...let justice be served on those knots in societies bowels.
Message 2/79 01-Nov-02 @ 07:07 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
And waging war with armoured cars, tanks and helicopter gunships against people with slings and stones, is a crime against humanity.
Cheers
Stvy
Message 3/79 01-Nov-02 @ 07:48 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
its pretty bad man.
i need to find the statistics but the church was growing in isreal prior to 1948 and has been declining since. in other words christianity was better off under the arabs than the jews.
some things to consider, knowing your point of view as i do :-)
jamey
Message 4/79 01-Nov-02 @ 08:33 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Message 6/79 01-Nov-02 @ 09:47 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
for wanting their land back?
for fighting back (yes, with stones and light arms against tanks and missiles?)
guess I should read the article first
Message 7/79 01-Nov-02 @ 10:20 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Message 8/79 02-Nov-02 @ 12:45 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
zazza, a tiny fraction of dissention can be expected.
yeah j, you know i'm NOT against any particular people and i do know how the Israelis treat others (preach the word and get sent to jail). you forgot to mention the flip side too.
To me, the hate is on both sides, but the world cannot tolerate murderous bombings and should not.
i'm actually floored that HRW came out with this, but it's a step in the right direction.
britain never did "give in" to the IRA, who later were very apologetic about their unwarranted actions. Israel is following suit.
Unfortunately, we've got two foes at the top of opposing sides. Little do they know, their forefathers are the same. All blood runs red.
Message 9/79 02-Nov-02 @ 01:52 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
BOTH sides should be punished (?) for these acts. Israel kills civilians too...
damn...sick fucking world this.
Message 11/79 02-Nov-02 @ 02:40 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Message 12/79 02-Nov-02 @ 03:45 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
IRA did some evil shit...but cornered animals are the same everywhere you look...push em too far and they react violently.
Message 13/79 02-Nov-02 @ 08:49 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
and the Irish DID give in to the British. Why?
Because they beat the shit out of them until they did.
re The Israeli/Palestinian conflict. The Palestinians never did give in to the Israeli terrorists did they?
Message 14/79 02-Nov-02 @ 11:50 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
WAR - HUH - WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING - SAY IT AGAIN.
Message 15/79 03-Nov-02 @ 12:04 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
??????????
what?
errr... gobsmacked...
read some history maybe?
Message 16/79 03-Nov-02 @ 11:59 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Message 17/79 04-Nov-02 @ 12:04 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
try www.google.com
Message 18/79 04-Nov-02 @ 12:07 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
over to disposess the irish of their land mate.
There's a lot more to it than that, but I can't be
arsed.
To be honest, I think the UK govt would love to
get rid of NI - it costs the taxpayer a fortune
and I really can't see spain invading
nowadays. But if you give it back to the Irish,
then the protestants will kick off. catch 22.
Message 19/79 04-Nov-02 @ 01:09 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Message 20/79 04-Nov-02 @ 06:16 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Message 21/79 04-Nov-02 @ 10:05 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Now the world can see (albeit what is shown)
and decisions to act are increasingly in the light of global (first world) viewers.
I still think that consumers can influence these things through sanctioning the products of countries that piss you off. Getting a list of products and originating countries would be a useful tool.
Message 22/79 04-Nov-02 @ 10:47 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Message 23/79 04-Nov-02 @ 10:50 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
but hey cheddar...so boycott offending countries?
oh the MADNESS if we were to know the truth about the US? I mean..seriously...
can one get so fabulously wealthy WITHOUT pooping all over the concept of ethics?
Message 26/79 04-Nov-02 @ 06:50 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Message 27/79 04-Nov-02 @ 09:16 PM Edit: 04-Nov-02 | 09:18 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Right on man...
And slavery? Didn't Abe Lincoln ban it in 1965 or summat?
Message 28/79 04-Nov-02 @ 09:44 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Ahhh where would we be without do-gooders? Bollox I say, do gooders just keep the fire fuelled are perpetuate the hate. See? No, thought not. Keep in your little cubicle, its safe in there. I think I'm gonna go out tonight and kill some Germans, after all they killed my Great Grandpappy in WW1. (For our cousins in the US - I'm being ironic, joking) Just before all the knees start jerking. LOL
Message 29/79 04-Nov-02 @ 10:10 PM Edit: 04-Nov-02 | 10:13 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
can I come to the trial?
What you said above cant be irony by the way, because that would imply that someone is suggesting taking revenge, which they aren't...
Message 30/79 04-Nov-02 @ 10:33 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Message 31/79 04-Nov-02 @ 10:40 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Message 32/79 04-Nov-02 @ 10:40 PM Edit: 04-Nov-02 | 10:42 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
and the reason i know it is is because half my family is black and i have to deal with them being physically and verbally abused because of their skin color.. sad but true..
racism is endemic in society... just is.. sorry.. i see it with my own eyes on a daily basis.. and believe if it happened to you you wouldn't stand there and grin about it, you'd probably slug someone.. but then that makes you the violent one doesn't it? So you have to take the abuse and move on... with as much dignity as you can muster..
Message 33/79 05-Nov-02 @ 09:50 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
divide and rule
Message 34/79 05-Nov-02 @ 09:53 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Message 35/79 05-Nov-02 @ 09:57 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
And history, well don't even get me started on time...
psylichon
Message 36/79 05-Nov-02 @ 10:01 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Message 37/79 05-Nov-02 @ 11:25 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
And slavery isn't new, right, there was already a healthy slave trade going on in africa when the europeans started turning up and buying slaves from other africans. Although in africa slaves were part of society much as slaves in Greece, the roman empire etc.. were.. the europeans introduced new levels of degradation and brutality into the process..
To give an example... the portuguese worked out how much it cost to feed, keep and clothe a slave for a year and realised that it was cheaper to buy new ones... so they literally worked their slaves to death on a loincloth/minimum diet basis and bought new ones..
anyhow.. yes it's time people dropped the them and us crap on so many levels and playing fields..
I don't think this means pretending that predjudice and injustice doesnt exist tho... cos that just stores up trouble for ever..
ironically, slavery is still going on in africa, eastern europe and asia.. in fact some of our great western corporations have slaves working for them in third world factories..
it's a sad world..
Message 38/79 05-Nov-02 @ 11:55 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Outlooks are like cups of water being half full or half empty
Message 39/79 05-Nov-02 @ 12:14 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Message 40/79 05-Nov-02 @ 01:44 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
I dont think your attitude helps, even tho you claim if eveyone had it like you it'd be better.
I mean it's a classic right... like with drug addicts or alchoholics or people with any type of 'problem'. They cant fix it until they admit that it is there in the first place, admitting there is a problem is the first step to fixing it surely??
Message 41/79 05-Nov-02 @ 03:24 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Message 42/79 05-Nov-02 @ 05:37 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
anyways... all I'm trying to do is bring a bit of sanity to the procedings before it gets out of hand... and at least it seems to have brought out some better responses and everyone is a bit clearer about peoples position. So that is cool
carry on...
Message 44/79 06-Nov-02 @ 12:00 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Human "rights" are whatever those in power decide. They're not universl truths. I DO get tired of hearing people that keep "the fires burning" about things that happened a good ways in the past. I DO NOT have a problem with people speaking out about current injustices (just dunna go dragging history into it, cos history is just that - someone's STORY of how something went down - while sometimes accurate, it can sometimes be found to be woefully inaccurate...). If you have to justify your soapboxing by filling in with past injustices, no one will ever move forward... NO ONE.
I've had the shit kicked out of me on more than one occasion because of "who I am." That doesn't suddenly make it okay for me to bash a whole ethnic group because the folk that trashed me happened to follow something of the same creed/culture.... Sure I can if I want to, but to what end? I hate all rednecks cos they dunna like gypsies? I hate all blacks cos they dunna like whites? I hate all Italians cos they dunna like yokels? I hate all Texans cos they dunna like NAs? I hate all etc., etc. Ya see where that can go?
Race, creed, ethnicty... They're all "touchy" subjects... Why? I dunno really, but maybe it's because folks (on both sides) just won't let it go. I mean afterall, most of you fuckers ancestors spent a good deal of time chasing my folks off your land and calling us thieves and worse. So maybe I should hunt down all of you, eh?
Peace - and I do mean that.
Message 45/79 06-Nov-02 @ 01:24 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
or....youre talking about different ancestors and thieves and land stealing?
Message 46/79 06-Nov-02 @ 02:33 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
I'm from gypsy stock, for what it's worth... an' that ain't much...=) Tinkers to be exact....
Message 47/79 06-Nov-02 @ 04:21 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Those guys were tough as nails...
Message 48/79 06-Nov-02 @ 06:05 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Message 49/79 06-Nov-02 @ 06:13 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Message 51/79 06-Nov-02 @ 07:24 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Preach on brother psylichon! =)
Message 52/79 06-Nov-02 @ 10:51 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Rom = Romanian?
model? lost me.
Message 53/79 06-Nov-02 @ 11:33 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Message 55/79 06-Nov-02 @ 03:57 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
i saw this great docu on tv once about tzar of romanian gypsys (apparently they do have one. i know they have dukes and such, but this guy was the top numero uno) travelling with his crew to india to find their ancestors. it was magical, better than LOTR if you ask me: they travelled by bus and train all the way across asia finding gypsy hospitality along the way. when they arrived to india the raja of the province where the gypsies originate from accepted them to his pallace and threw a ball for them. our romanian guy decided this cannot be his ancestors because they are rich and well educated and all, so in the end they went on and found some asketic(sp) nomads in the desert to embrace. they shared dances, knowledge etc... true story. well funny.
Message 56/79 06-Nov-02 @ 04:28 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
similar lifestyle and that but not the same
people.
Message 58/79 06-Nov-02 @ 07:05 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
bleedin' new age travellers.. how dare they not want to live in a house..
Message 59/79 06-Nov-02 @ 09:04 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
for u.s. folks.. when i was kid in u.k. i asked why all the farmer fields have these trenches dug around them.. to keep tinkers from camping their wagons on the fields.. now that's a LOT of fields and a lot of trenches!
it's funny. u.s. people are supposedly the most diverse but y'all blend into this one big, anemic commercial controlled culture that has absolutely no clue about how different cultures really interact.
another funny thing i was thinking of.. you go into any village in u.k. (and the next one 1/3 mile down road) and you'll find a monument (well two) in the square with a list of names on it.
now HERE you go to washington d.c. you can see a big old wall if you like, but noospherically, it's "up there, in d.c. with all the other important crap" not right in your hometown, part of your daily life, with surnames of your friends on it. unreal.
Message 60/79 06-Nov-02 @ 09:35 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
come now, xoxos. youre goin overboard yet again with the all americans suck thing.
Message 61/79 06-Nov-02 @ 09:57 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
In the US, there's gypsy folk like the travellers, which oft get a bad rap even from other gypsies. Point I was trying to make, and maybe I did in a round about way, is even the "lowest common denominator" in our society (whoever they may be) tends to try and jack up where they belong in the social strata... i.e., I'm gypsy, but I'm Rom, not just any old gypsy....
Like k said about the Calloway guy, he's a "true gypsy." An' I'm not railin' at you k, methinks you know where I'm comin from, but y'all see how easy it is to slide into the racial, ethnic, class thing... even without trying?
Dunna get me wrong, I believe in being proud of your own heritage, just not at the expense of others being "put in their proper places."
Pesa
Message 62/79 06-Nov-02 @ 11:20 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
You have said Palestinian boy throwing rocks at an IDF tank because it's in his back yard where he happens to kick the football around. He gets popped while standing next to his buddy, and his buddy flees. His buddy now wonders, "my friend was just shot because he was throwing rocks at a tank in his back yard, maybe I should stop hucking rocks at tanks.." and decides to do so. But he then considers that another one of his friends was shot on his way to school, and he wasn't doing anything but walking to school...so now he wonders, "maybe I shouldn't go to school, my friend just got popped." and he decides that he's not going to go to school in fear of getting sniped by some IDF guy.
So now his family needs some food, and needs to walk down to the market, but he then remembers that this particular time doesn't fall within the 1-2 hours a day that they can go outside and they reconsider. Now it is within the curfew, but he then considers another friend that got shot and killed trying to get some vegetables that are available at the local market...in addition to the fact that if they had made it, who would have been out selling shit anyway...you might get sniped. So his entire family forgoes getting any food and figures that they are just as well to stay inside, but then they consider what happened at Jenin and Ramallah and how a neighbors house was bulldozed with the family still inside, and they decide as a family....FUCK IT...there ain't shit to live for.
dissonance
Message 63/79 07-Nov-02 @ 07:16 AM Edit: 07-Nov-02 | 07:21 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Black people are now eight times more likely to be stopped and searched by the police than white people, the BBC has learned.
Mr Bewry, a Health and Safety officer got stopped 16 times in 2 years.
Mr Bewry's lawyer said there were 1,700 black people living in Norfolk and 219 were stopped and searched in one year. This represented nearly 13%.
By contrast, the figure for stop and search for white men was less than 2%, he said.
Message 64/79 07-Nov-02 @ 07:29 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
wtf?
man...
almost sounds WORSE there!!!!!
Message 65/79 07-Nov-02 @ 08:05 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
xoxos, that reminds me of something I've wanted to ask you since I first heard your music. Do you have an accent or is just your singing style?
psylichon
Message 66/79 07-Nov-02 @ 08:09 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
'Black while driving' is also an apparent cause for stop and search...
Message 68/79 07-Nov-02 @ 08:42 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
now see..that is just WRONG."
flux, weren't you the one bitching about using real names on here? :}
psylichon
Message 69/79 07-Nov-02 @ 09:13 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
second
IRVINE is the name of a fucking TOWN you hippy!
a town that is infamous for "DWB" stories.
Message 70/79 07-Nov-02 @ 09:17 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
well, just kiss my ass then
psylichon
Message 71/79 07-Nov-02 @ 09:22 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
but if youre in Irvine dont be black, ok? but..its QUITE ok to be asian.
now THAT is some fucked up shit! one "color" is bad, but another (cuz theyre smarter and all that you know) is ok.
phew.
Message 72/79 07-Nov-02 @ 10:17 AM - RE: Human Rights Watch
And the asians (indians/pakistanis/bangladeshis) and africans both get classified as 'black'
sigh...
Message 73/79 07-Nov-02 @ 12:04 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Message 74/79 07-Nov-02 @ 03:15 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
-Craig
Message 75/79 07-Nov-02 @ 03:36 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
Message 77/79 07-Nov-02 @ 04:28 PM - RE: Human Rights Watch
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