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Subject: by jove i've got it!

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Original Message 1/22 14-Nov-02 @ 06:28 PM - by jove i've got it!

Steve Roughley

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In realtion to an earlier post entitled 'help my bass sounds crap!', I thought I should let you all know that I've cracked it. And it wasn't what I thought. I had the right tone to the bass but it still wasn't punchy. After some messing about, I found that if I set assign Source to Filter Envelope and the Destination to Filter Decay, it really tightens up the decay and gives the bass a really nice punchy click at the beginning, as opposed to the loose sounding click that I was not liking.

I know it is a bit of a rant, but I am very happy with myself! And I hope it helps others.

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 2/22 14-Nov-02 @ 07:21 PM - RE: by jove i've got it!

xoxos

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i think i just mentioned that last week, layering envelopes for ucrves.

that's why most of my vsti (after a point) have linear/exponential scales. wait. i just use those myself.

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Message 3/22 15-Nov-02 @ 10:32 AM - RE: by jove i've got it!

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what bass synth was that again Steve? (vsti?)

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 4/22 15-Nov-02 @ 11:05 AM - RE: by jove i've got it!

Steve Roughley

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Aaahh. I thought that I might have read something about this technique, but couldn't remember. It's annoying when you find that a stroke of ones genious is actually anothers. Damn

And thank you!

I can't actually run VSTi's, K. My computer just makes a mess of the sound that they produce. ATM I am learning how to use my Virus C for bass.

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 5/22 15-Nov-02 @ 04:45 PM - RE: by jove i've got it!

milan

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layering envelopes for curves? anyone wanna explain that in more datail?

hmm...*thinking*... rise time over rise time making the evelope rise progressively quicker or slower resulting in a... a curve! right? have i got it? cool idea, why didnt i think of that before!

thanks, m

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Message 6/22 15-Nov-02 @ 08:55 PM - RE: by jove i've got it!

psylichon

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kinda forcing your linear envelopes to behave exponentially.

kinda

psylihon

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Message 7/22 15-Nov-02 @ 11:27 PM - RE: by jove i've got it!

Steve Roughley

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That's it! And it really tightens up the filter decay on the Virus. That was the only thing that I was worried about when I started getting the hang of the Virus. It seemed like the filter envelopes were crap at shorter times, but thankfully this recursive techniuqe has made my synth foolproof.

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 8/22 04-Jan-03 @ 09:52 PM - RE: by jove i've got it!

Steve Roughley

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Oohh, oohh, oohh. Yet another trick that I have found for getting nice synth bass sounds. this trick will get you a really nice kind of soft click at the start of your bass that makes it quite punchy (yes, I know I have explained a way of doing this in the above post, but this is better). I have heard the sound that this trick produces in many prog and trance tracks. Give it a try. Your ears will love you for it.

Set up your bass sound as you like. Then set an LFO to a square wave at a fairly slow rate. Next, set up the LFO to trigger on each note and to modulate the filters on your bass. Positive modulation amounts are what we're after here, so that we can get a higher range comming through at the start of each note. Now edit the timing of the LFO so that the square wave drops (enters the negative part of the duty cycle) just after the start of the note. This is where we get our click. Go through and touch up the settings so that the click sounds nice and tight.

The problem I faced here is that, on long notes, you can hear the square wave modulate the filter further along the note. What I did to stop this is set up another LFO to a falling sawtooth (sloping down to the right) set it to trigger with every note and to modulate the speed of the square wave LFO with negative values, so that the square wave oscilations decrease. Now you can get the square wave to slow down after the click to the point that it practically stops oscilating. It works for a couple of seconds. If you need any longer than that, then sampling is easy enough.

Sorry about the rant, but I was quite chuffed when I found this little trick.

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 9/22 04-Jan-03 @ 10:13 PM - RE: by jove i've got it!

psylichon

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nice trick, but why not just do it with an envelope? Fast attack to taste, quick decay to taste, you can even set the sustain to whatever filter level you want a held note to be at. And even better, you can usually set the env to trigger legato for more expression.

psy

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Message 10/22 04-Jan-03 @ 10:22 PM - RE: by jove i've got it!

Steve Roughley

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Well, all I can say is give it a try. The difference in sound is quite surprising. I had been trying to achieve the product of this trick using envelopes alone, but it is better to leave envelopes to their job and use this little trick to add a bit extra at the beginning. The decay doesn't seem to fall away quickly enough, even with recursive modulation, to get the same sound.

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 11/22 04-Jan-03 @ 10:28 PM - RE: by jove i've got it!

psylichon

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i hear what you're saying. Unfortunately, my trusty little Nova doesn't seem to allow me to change the phase of my LFO's. your trick has led me to some nice throaty, dirty FMish basses though. thanks!

psy

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Message 12/22 04-Jan-03 @ 10:50 PM - RE: by jove i've got it!

Steve Roughley

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I'm allways glad to help indirectly

Steve.

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Message 13/22 05-Jan-03 @ 02:14 AM - RE: by jove i've got it!

influx

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hey steve..on the virus you can set the LFO to envelope mode, so...you wouldnt need that second LFO modulating the square wave one.

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Message 14/22 10-Jan-03 @ 04:35 AM Edit: 10-Jan-03 | 04:36 AM - RE: by jove i've got it!

timothyallanmusic

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I'm a little confuzzzed. I'm trying to do this on my MOSS board (Korg Z1)...

>Then set an LFO to a square wave at a fairly slow rate.

did it.

> Next, set up the LFO to trigger on each note and to modulate the filters on your bass. Positive modulation amounts...

did it.

> Now edit the timing of the LFO so that the square wave drops (enters the negative part of the duty cycle) just after the start of the note.

Ok, but to get a fast click, wouldnt that mean speeding up the LFO? In which case, all I get is a square LFO turning on and off my filter... Unlesssss, does the Virus have a setting where you can set the LFO to go only once? or am i totally out of the ballpark? heheh

tim

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Message 15/22 10-Jan-03 @ 06:11 AM - RE: by jove i've got it!

influx

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you can set the virus LFOs to envelope mode, which makes them only trigger once

but taht wasnt what steve meant

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Message 16/22 10-Jan-03 @ 11:42 AM Edit: 10-Jan-03 | 11:44 AM - RE: by jove i've got it!

Steve Roughley

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[image file]

OK, these images show a square wave LFO. The red line marks the point from which the LFO is played when a note is triggered. This is what I mean by adjusting the timing. Wave 2, shows a rough idea of where you want the LFO to be triggered.

Hope this helps.

Steve.

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Message 17/22 10-Jan-03 @ 04:20 PM - RE: by jove i've got it!

timothyallanmusic

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Coolio, yup that totally helps, but I don't think I can do it on my board. I'll have to try when i get home tonight.

t

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Message 18/22 21-Feb-03 @ 03:22 PM - RE: by jove i've got it!

greg

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another good way to produce a pronounced click is to set a quick envelope- just attack and decay to negaitively modulate the pulse width on a square wave.. what happens is that on note down the pulse width is modulated down to a tight setting and then back up again v quickly- produces a nice click if you get it right.....

greg

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Message 19/22 22-Feb-03 @ 01:53 AM - RE: by jove i've got it!

Steve Roughley

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Good thinking

God, I love synthesis. It's a wonder that I ever get a track together at all!

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 20/22 18-Mar-03 @ 01:19 PM - RE: by jove i've got it!

dubmunkey

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me too, recently ive been getting some nice clicky basses and then cheating by running them through Maxxbass and then putting them back into my sampler- best of both worlds- click and oomph- yey!

Greg

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Message 21/22 03-Apr-03 @ 10:05 PM - RE: by jove i've got it!

djjessex

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You can have too much bass.

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Message 22/22 04-Apr-03 @ 01:06 AM - RE: by jove i've got it!

lsw

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Cut the mid range, drop the bass, why dont you move damn it!

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