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Original Message 1/49 30-Nov-02 @ 01:18 PM Edit: 30-Nov-02 | 01:20 PM - everyones doing it!!!

Steve Roughley

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Not sure if this has been discussed before, but I am starting to get very annoyed with all of the software piracy that is going on. Yesterday at my university, two of my lecturers were talking about where to find cracks for this and that, and I'm thinking, am I an idiot for paying??? I don't know if it is jealousy or what, but I have paid thousands, THOUSANDS!, for software (again, am I an idiot?), leaving me broke alot of the time, while so many people are just stealing and still have money to go out to clubs and have fun, and it really pisses me off to hear of people doing this.

This is part of the reason that Emagic moved to Apple, and badly affected users such as myself who have paid ALOT of money for this stuff. Don't get me wrong, I have no major moral hangups about it, but what happened to supporting those who provide you with the products that you use? I actually feel quite screwed over!

I'm sorry if it sounds like I am winging, I don't mean to. Any input from other paying users would be appreciated.

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 2/49 30-Nov-02 @ 01:39 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

milan

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yup. everybody is doing it.

i�ve seen professional studios using cracked plugins, and i�ve even heard of a studio which ran on 100% pirated software as an interim solution untill their paid for system arrived

if you ask me, untill you arent making any money out of it i wouldnt stress it too much. and if you, then its only fair that you pay some money back.

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Message 3/49 30-Nov-02 @ 03:53 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

xoxos

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well, that's humanity for ya. one group charges completely unreasonable amounts, and the other group don't have a shred of decency. hey check out my forked tongue.

i'm sorry, but you can buy a goddamn rabbit for $5, i don't see how someone's analog saturation emulation can be worth $5000, i don't think that equates. especially since it's dead. obviously the smart thing to do is buy two rabbits and wait a few years to buy s/w. you can trade them one for one in a while, since you can't grow shit to eat in a plug-in.

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Message 4/49 30-Nov-02 @ 05:34 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

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true dat x

I've paid for well over $1500 in plug-ins and host apps (waves alone was $800).

I've taken a new stance though because of getting burned (buying stuff that I later found out not to suit needs or is a POS!! like Mobius.) I take my time, a long time, then I purchase.

heh heh, i was chatting with a cat online, and he just took the mick that i paid for my waves.

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Message 5/49 30-Nov-02 @ 06:11 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

Pongoid

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don't you ever read the cracks, even for installation? "Try this out, and if you like it, but the software!"

If you're not making any money with the product, you've used it once or twice to try it out, decided that there are better tools for you out there, then why the fuck should you be anything but frustrated with yourself for having made the choice of buying something before you were sure about it? Let this be a lesson in resource management, my boy!

Ape

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Message 6/49 30-Nov-02 @ 08:59 PM Edit: 30-Nov-02 | 11:11 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

influx

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I hear ya Steve.

definitely a tough one. Ive paid for all the software I use. Except wavelab which was given to me but is still a legit version.

but...cracks? damn. i give people shit regularly because most of em are just gluttonous fucks with no clue whatsoever ("I have cubase, sonar, logic, protools and 1000000000000000 plugins, now what do I do?") and the other smaller percentage just refuses to pay for things.

why should they be free?

why should someone CRACK something like junglist which has a proven track record and costs only $60??!?!!?

but then...the overpriced shit like waves? $800?

"But...what you get for that money is equal to $100k in studio gear"

right, but it COST how much to make?

I suspect the profit margin is ludicrous in these fields.

but..they supply useful tools, and we live in a system that encourages people to raise their price to the maximum possible.

I dunno man...the fact that lecturers were referring to cracked versions is SICK. they should be reprimanded for such nonsense. I mean...college students get really good deals on most software.

what it comes down to is a sense of entitlement. Hardly anyone seems to think they should have to pay for anything. It should all be handed to them with no effort on their part.

sad

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Message 7/49 30-Nov-02 @ 10:19 PM Edit: 30-Nov-02 | 10:22 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

Mindspawn

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I don't have any problems paying for what I use. However, given how the s/w companies treat their legal customers (dongles, activation codes, etc., etc.), I've turned to using cracks in some cases, simply so I can get on with my work. Folks like Antares and Waves in particular use the "safety" features from PACE that make being a legal user a real pain in the ass. Youu'd think they'd take a cue from folks like Sonar, simple serial number copy protection, no muss, no fuss, and they sell more audio s/w than anyone... go figure.

The last time I did a OS upgrade it took me almost two weeks to finally get my legal copy of Autotune sorted. I've now located a crack that I'll use the next time, simply cos I dunna think a paying customer should have to jump through all these hoops just to use something I bought legally. Could you imagine if hardware/synth manufacturers did something like that.

"Sorry client, I wanted to reset my Manley Vox box to factory settings, but I haven't got the activation codes yet, so you can try back tomorrow..."

THAT is why hardware will remain superior to s/w in my world, at least for a while longer... I just turn it on and it works.

Pizza

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Message 8/49 30-Nov-02 @ 10:34 PM Edit: 30-Nov-02 | 10:36 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

bedwyr

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italics off

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Message 9/49 30-Nov-02 @ 11:00 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

Def Z

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Cracks are useful to try stuff out, but you should also pay for what you use. Sorry Milan, while generally I agree with you on stuff, but I think you're WAY out of line here. If you don't make money off of it you should pay for it? Huh? That's some of the most twisted logic I've heard yet. I don't make money off of LOTS of things I buy. Software is no different.

I've paid for most of the software I use, and the stuff I haven't paid for I'm trying. I will agree with Ape in that I don't want to screw myself paying $300 for a program that I don't like.

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Message 10/49 01-Dec-02 @ 12:56 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

influx

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theres a big uproar right now over at cubase.net

a guy DLs a crack and cant get it to run...so he posts at the cubase forum?

and then has the nerve to tell people to f-off when they dont want to help him?

I just dont understand it. When i got into this and someone gave me a crack of VST 3.7..I realized full well that I was on my own and didnt need ask anyone for help...

then I bought 5.0..and..hmmm....still learned it on my own

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Message 11/49 01-Dec-02 @ 12:57 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

milan

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well, i meant as long as you�re messing about with it, trying stuff out, getting to know whats right for you... personaly, i think logic platinum is worth every penny for all the power, in fact i am in complete awe of it. but i dunno if i could convince anyone to pay for a pc version anymore considering circumstances...

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Message 12/49 01-Dec-02 @ 01:01 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

Steve Roughley

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Anyone heard of "Demo Periods"??? With software you get far more trial time than you do with hardware. I mean, I got 30 days with Waves Native Gold bundle, and I was sold in 2. If it was hardware, I'd have had an hours session with a Sales Executive to decide. In fact, I didn't even get to test my Virus C as it involved a trip to flipping London! Using cracks to get a feel for software is a misnomer and pointless.

To be honest, I truly enjoyed those moments when my box arrived (ooohhh, it's christmas for the big boys now kids

) and I knew it was my Waves Native Gold bundle, or my Logic Platinum, the fact that it was �### (bargain!) disappeared for a few days.

If I found that someone had been stealing Access Virus synths, I'd form a man hunt and lynch the fucker! Sure, software may be a very abstract version of its physical counterpart, but it does the same job, so it will warrant the same price tag, and if you aren't willing to pay for it then why are you going to use it in the first place???

Anywho, it's good to know that I am not alone on this one. I was becomming somewhat disillusioned.

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 13/49 01-Dec-02 @ 01:42 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

influx

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"so it will warrant the same price tag"

nah. not the same price. but...so far no software (cept PT) costs anywhere near what similiar hardware would cost.

I still think some SW is overpriced if you look at the cost/profit ratio but whatever. $500 for Cubase SX, right?

damn...thats a WHOLE studio in a box!

dunno...prevailing attitude seems to be that everything should be free and no one should have to work for it.

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Message 14/49 01-Dec-02 @ 03:09 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

Def Z

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I call it the Napster generation...

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Message 15/49 01-Dec-02 @ 03:17 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

influx

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and who taught them?

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Message 16/49 01-Dec-02 @ 04:46 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

pict

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There's no point getting your knickers in a twist over it,because there's absolutely fuck all you can do about other people's piracy just be true to your own moral code that's hard enough in the face of overwhelming temptation to do otherwise at times.

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Message 17/49 01-Dec-02 @ 12:03 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

Steve Roughley

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Nice one Pict!

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 18/49 01-Dec-02 @ 08:56 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

psylichon

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Like it or not, we as human beings have not found a way of safeguaring information/data/algorithms/music so it is uncopyable. Perhaps that's nature's way of saying that such ideas and creations are not meant to be "owned" for the sake of making a profit. Perhaps such things should be free domain as soon as they are created for the good of humanity. It's a paradigm shift no doubt, but think about it...

psy

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Message 19/49 01-Dec-02 @ 10:02 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

influx

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bullshit. I have NO problem with product for products sake. Come on psylichon..that "software should be free" thing is DEAD...

are you like a 35 year old ex hacker?

there's no reason why SW shouldnt be paid for. People put in time and effort to develop it, just like anything else.

again..might be overpriced, but...all should be free?

sorry homey but thats just too much.

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Message 20/49 01-Dec-02 @ 10:19 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

Def Z

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It's just a fancy way of saying "I'm lazy".

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Message 21/49 01-Dec-02 @ 11:03 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

psylichon

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whatever guys.

like a lot of what I say, it's just philosophical fancy. Obviously it doesn't work in our given situation with money and the market and such, but don't dump on a nice money-free-world idea just because it's not 'realistic.'

and yeah, I'm lazy, but I'm honest about it. And the "software should be free" 'thing' isn't dead because I'm still feeling it so what do you think about that?

And I'm not entirely convinced that I should make money from the music I create, either.

'wooie, that psy guy is one fruitball dreamer, I tell ya. he'll get lost to the world soon enough.'

psy

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Message 22/49 01-Dec-02 @ 11:22 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

influx

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and here I was thinking I was completely idealistic to the point of fooling myself

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Message 23/49 02-Dec-02 @ 12:46 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

Mindspawn

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I'm with you psylichon, least to a degree. Music is free... There's just a lot of greedy fucks that like to make money off it cos, in our current world, they can. I don't think it's utopian to think this music should be free. Same for software/information. It IS free, some smart fucks just figured out how to get people to pay for it.

That's waaaay oversimplifying things, for certain. Ne'ertheless, because I still continue to live within a society, I obey it's "codes" like paying for s/w.... When it gets to the point that I get "punished" for being a legal user as opposed to using a crack, well, that just shows ya where things have gotten to, eh?

Nor am I saying you shouldn't get paid for your work, whether it be as a muso or a progger. But for fuck's sake, charge what it's worth, not simply whatever you can get. Is a Sasha set worth the 30 grand that he gets paid? Not to me. Am I willing to pay for the manufacturing costs of a CD and a bit of royalty to the artist? Sure, but the manufacturing cost of a any big run CD is less than $1.00, so in my way of thinking, the whole cost of a CD SHOULD be under $10.00. When I pirate a copy I'm just evening the score in my own little way, getting back some of what is basically stolen from me when I buy a CD for $17.99.

Unfortunately, there's now a whole generation of people who are brainwashed into thinking such prices are normal and fair....

I for one, welcome our new Insect Overlords....

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Message 24/49 02-Dec-02 @ 12:55 AM Edit: 02-Dec-02 | 02:27 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

xoxos

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i'll rephrase that...

ideals without practice are (yes, are) far kinder than practice without ideals.

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Message 25/49 02-Dec-02 @ 02:31 AM Edit: 02-Dec-02 | 02:33 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

xoxos

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..you don't need to know.

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Message 26/49 02-Dec-02 @ 04:03 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

psylichon

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i saw it

psy

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Message 27/49 02-Dec-02 @ 01:29 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

BJT

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Its not all bad, you get support and cheap upgrades. But best of all, if you fork out serious money for something, you do tend to use it and try to get your worth out of it! And the fact that you have payed for all your software is proof of your commitment. Power2u.

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Message 28/49 02-Dec-02 @ 02:25 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

milan

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yeah, i was just thinking about it earlier on today. people who pay for the programs appreciate them much more and tend to get deeper into them to exploit their full power (or get their moneys worth, take your pick). probably because that power was earned, not given.

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Message 29/49 02-Dec-02 @ 09:06 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

xoxos

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i love work ethic.. freedom was not meant for the obedient.

maybe that explains our relative exploitation of synthedit..

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Message 30/49 02-Dec-02 @ 11:26 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

influx

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cant say I agree with the "paid for = appreciated" thing...

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Message 31/49 03-Dec-02 @ 12:11 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

Def Z

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I think there's a degree of truth in that for most people. I know I appreciate things that I've earned a lot more than things that were given to me.

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Message 32/49 03-Dec-02 @ 05:51 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

Mindspawn

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Yer all ninnys... don't appreciate free stuff as much as paid for stuff??? What silliness is that? Something has to come with shrinkwrap and a pricetag to make yer wheels turn hard?

Fuk'em and feed'em fishheads.....=)

Peace

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Message 33/49 03-Dec-02 @ 10:22 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

influx

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i aint no ninny ya GIT.

like I said..if money makes you appreciate it more...youre..youre...youre a NINNY!

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Message 34/49 03-Dec-02 @ 10:54 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

milan

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well if you have less gear you are going to try to get more out of it, innit! that was my point. i guess i�d appreciate 100 different compressors, one for each possible task just as well, but i�d never get further than presets. ok ok, not me, but someone outthere... bah. ninny :P

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Message 35/49 03-Dec-02 @ 03:40 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

corley.brigman

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"But for fuck's sake, charge what it's worth, not simply whatever you can get."

so who gets to decide what something is worth? i thought that was the whole point of the capitalist system, the market decides what something is worth?

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Message 36/49 03-Dec-02 @ 05:46 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

CHEDDAR

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Not when commercial monopolies operate to maintain unique poition (buying competitors/raising barriers to entry) and force lobbies to press for judicial/governmental influence to remove competition. Whats thast economic law about never having enough

What is wrong with paying a reasonable amount. Charging what you can get away with has caused many of the problems I see around. Boom/bust, get rich quick, customers as sacrifice, advertsing overload, the shit and shit and shit of quangos and old boy networks WASTING BILLIONS to maintain their inefective and sheltered lives. I mean check out the pensions industry, if there were ever a bunch of chinless incompetent fuchs, old names colluding with gov to keep backs scrtached and grandad public being forced to go that way and then wondering whether to heat his home or eat with whats left of the pension these guys frittered away on .com

any wisdom tortoise?

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Message 37/49 03-Dec-02 @ 09:32 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

influx

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corley is right...thats what it was SUPPOSED to be

but what is actually in practice is what cheddar's got goin...

scary, sad, sick world this.

make money. all else be damned.

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Message 38/49 03-Dec-02 @ 11:14 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

BJT

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Yeah bloody baby boomers!

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Message 39/49 03-Dec-02 @ 11:32 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

bedwyr

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be cool. ^

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Message 40/49 04-Dec-02 @ 02:58 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

xoxos

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well, it's got to be said.

doin it, doin it. pickin their nose and chewin it, chewin it.

aah, that's better.

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Message 41/49 04-Dec-02 @ 05:41 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

Mindspawn

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I do agree that the Cap. system does seem to be about what the market will bear. So? It dunna mean I agree with it. And afore anyone gets their knickers in a twist, I ain't got anything to suggest as a replacement... Well, maybe I want, so I take...?

Ayah, Ayah, Cthulhu Flaghn Azathoth....

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Message 42/49 04-Dec-02 @ 07:35 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

psylichon

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Yeah, companies are allowed to do whatever they can to amass as much wealth as possible using "the invisible hand" as their only justification for the greed, yet when I want to "maximize" my personal wealth by not buying something I can get for free, I'm cheating the system! If the companies can get something for free and get away with it, you better damned well believe they're gonna do it!

Point is, greed sucks and we ALL have to get the fuck over it. Doing away with money would be a good start.

psy

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Message 43/49 04-Dec-02 @ 08:41 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

influx

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argh here he goes again

so do away with money, clothes, possessions, ALL OF IT, right?

its not the material thats bad, man. its the way people view it, and covet! THAT is what needs to be removed

it aint the arrows its the indian

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Message 44/49 04-Dec-02 @ 09:15 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

cheddar

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double standards abound.

I know this guy in the building industry and he tells me that they will target a ceratin supplier and the whole lot of them will order / contract heavy and then not pay. The guy/comapny goes down and they end up paying some small % of the bill to the creditors. They organised it, targeted it and benefitted from it.

But we, as Psy says we think about walking a mm from the line and some CCD perched behind a (completely safe) mobile phone antenna captures us and the computer spits out another fine

BAby boomers. Anyone thought about the effect of drug use on society as performed by 60's generation now in charge of their countries. I mean it's funny(?) to think that the fallout of a love society being what we see all over the western world.

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Message 45/49 04-Dec-02 @ 09:18 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

Mindspawn

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Love, peace, and profit margin...

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Message 46/49 04-Dec-02 @ 09:30 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

psylichon

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Influx, I don't think you're getting me here. I agree, money isn't the problem, it's how we view it.

There's nothing wrong with possesions. Aside from my belief that they're all illusions ultimately, but that's another topic. I'm talking about the accumulation of possesions, or wealth. Hoarding money. In other words, assessing your value as a person based on your wealth instead of your objective and practices. Now replace 'person' in that last sentence with 'business' and you describe the current state of capitalism. Yet somehow the "invisible hand" is supposed to guide us all to equilibrium. Now how the fuck is that supposed to happen while everyone's looking out for themselves??? No one thinks of themselves as a cog in the wheel anymore.

Money was invented to be used as a convenient exchange for needed goods. Instead of carrying a chicken around to barter, ya got a buck. Smaller pockets are invented.

Now, people see money as something to be hoarded and invested to make more of, and all that sort of shit that just ain't natural, goddammit!! Do away with that shit and people will start to see the real value of their possesions.

Just because it seems difficult doesn't mean it's preposterous. Hell, they did away with money in Star Trek!

psy

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Message 47/49 04-Dec-02 @ 09:39 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

bedwyr

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didn't do away with fat, lecherous old men in corsets though did they?

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Message 48/49 04-Dec-02 @ 11:50 AM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

xoxos

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fallout of a love society?

how many 'hippys' do you think really got anywhere, and how many do you think just added a new paintjob to their standard/assigned gig?

how the fuck many people grow a food garden near you? around here.. people got yards.. i don't see shit in them, except this really old french woman across the way, can barely move. got a little bamboo gazebo over her tomatos.

"i make em boys good wid da paaaans"

it IS the possessions. still.. so few people have a real inkling! HOW DOES THIS AFFECT - WHATEVER IT AFFECTS? where did it come from? what kind of experiences were produced by the process that got the constituent parts from their derivation to your table?

that's conscience - realisisng how we're connected, and you can sure as fuck bet that real material possessions come from real material places, and are usually assembled in real factories that produces real undesirable impact.

you think somehow your pleasure is more valid than a bunny's pain? i kick your teeth out.

the real problem with money is - well i gotta go to work right now! the other real problem is - well, to put it quickly, they oughtta put cows, not presidents on the front.

$5 = one rabbit. you just throttled six rabbits with your bare hands to take your girl to the movies huh.

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Message 49/49 04-Dec-02 @ 12:45 PM - RE: everyones doing it!!!

cheddar

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but then value moves doesn't it. Steers like an advertisers dream.

You import from advanced nation, you develop those products at home and the market moves everyone somewehere else so if you ain't cutting the tech you buying the tech - barriers to entry

How many versions of the white album you got, multi media = cycle of buying the same thing

laughing and laughing and laughing

Who said "hells empty all the deveils are up here?"

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