levels of different channels...?

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Subject: levels of different channels...?

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Original Message 1/12 10-Dec-02 @ 05:25 PM - levels of different channels...?

Spank!

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I used to believe that the kick drum had to be the highest peak in the mix, but it caused so much listening fatigue. Lately, I've been experimenting with different levels for everything and it's going ok(ish), but I was wondering about where each channel should be peaking? I mean, there are no hard/fast rules for this kind of thing, but there must be a few guidelines for me to follow?

Right now, I've got my kicks just loud enough to be heard in the mix, but generally where should things be peaking? All level?

And don't say 'use your ears!'

Spank!

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Message 2/12 10-Dec-02 @ 05:41 PM - RE: levels of different channels...?

psylichon

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use your ears.

seriously, you CAN'T MIX BY LEVELS alone. They are there to confirm what your ears hear.

sorry it's not what you want to hear, no pun intended.

psy

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Message 3/12 10-Dec-02 @ 05:53 PM - RE: levels of different channels...?

milan

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"I've got my kicks just loud enough to be heard in the mix" <- thats just about a good guideline, isnt it. like psy said, use your ears, its how it sounds what matters. if you are uncertain, get some propper monitors to help you hear better.

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Message 4/12 10-Dec-02 @ 10:28 PM - RE: levels of different channels...?

bedwyr

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and constantly compare to other bits of music of the type you want to make and of totally different stuff too. train your ears!

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Message 5/12 10-Dec-02 @ 10:51 PM - RE: levels of different channels...?

Mindspawn

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A piece of advice for doing dance music that I got a long time ago that still seems fairly relevant is make yer kicks and any vox samples loud enuff they're almost annoying. That'll make 'em just about right in a club... And for club music, I think that still works. There is a lot of fatigue, but it really sux to "lose" your kick in a club...

All that said, do use your ears (yeah it sounds lame, but it's more than true). I'll often setup me kicks betwixt -5 and -3db as a general starting point, but depending on the material, that can be quite a lot different...

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Message 6/12 11-Dec-02 @ 02:10 AM - RE: levels of different channels...?

Spank!

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Mindspawn - Making the kicks and vox crazy loud?? Are you sure that's a good thing? I mean, I've noticed that the best mixes I've heard seem to have a fairly flat dynamic response right across the spectrum.

I've also tried making the kicks really loud in a mix, but it kinda sounds horrible after a while...

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Message 7/12 11-Dec-02 @ 02:54 AM - RE: levels of different channels...?

Pongoid

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Nah, he's right. You can listen back and think "Oh man, this kick is WAYYY too much", but as soon as you hear it on a big system, you realize that it's far from the case. The only thing I can add is that you should not make your bass too fat. I know the temptation is to make the bass tone that's just rediculously thick and full, but it'll turn the rest of your mix into a very thin wimpy, and un-compressable mess so fast, it'll make your head spin. Also realize that if this is goin on ony sort of release like vinyl, or an decent CD release with clubs in mind, and on a faily large scale, you're going to have to hire somebody else to compress and EQ your mix to perfection. Someone that just does THAT all day long. Not another composer, but a mastering engineer. Shit, it took Prince almost twenty years of the music business to realize he needed one. Don't make that same mistake. If you're serious, hire the pro. If it's just for fun, then try to find a big rig you can try it out on, and see for yourself, and then...USE YOUR FUCKING EARS!!!! It's your creation, and it sould sound like YOU want it to sound. However, I made the same mistake with a track, mixed the kick too low, and built the tune around this, so that when I presented it to a label, the label guy said, it'sa great idea, but that kick will just get lost, it had to be bigger. No matter what I tried, the tune lost its character, with other kicks, different volumes, whatever, The kick I chose and the character were just doomed to not work together to make a tune that could keep up with other dancefloor pumpers and DJ tools of a similar style. I didn't get what he was saying at first, but I do now. At first I thought he was just being a prick, but looking back, I knw he was dead nuts on. He's still at his job, and some of my tracks BUMP, so I have him in part to thank for that lesson. Now you're getting it, and you can choose to take it or not.

The levels are a guide, but I only use them to keep me from clipping, and not oversaturating on any single channel, but after that, it's my ears that guide me. Music is about sound, so use your ears, and listen to what they say. You HAVE to build a working relationship with them.

Good luck, Spank.

Ape

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Message 8/12 11-Dec-02 @ 02:55 AM - RE: levels of different channels...?

Mindspawn

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I didna say REALLY LOUD, just very upfront and present all the time. Also, that's more apllicable to club trax than other bits. But yeah, I would say in my experience, it seems to bear fruit. Not always, but in a general fashion. Yer mileage may vary...=)

Mind you, you can use eq to sort the space for a kick a lot better than just using volume. You eventually stonewall on volume. EQ lets you sculpt out space for a kick/synth/whatever so that you dunna have to rely on volume exclusively/as much...

Peeees

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Message 9/12 11-Dec-02 @ 04:35 AM - RE: levels of different channels...?

Pongoid

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The sonic jigsaw puzzle. ;_

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Message 10/12 11-Dec-02 @ 10:10 AM - RE: levels of different channels...?

milan

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apso-f'in-lutely ape! its so much about carving up a place for each sound, and then going back and fillin up the little holes to make it all blend again! thats my main source of fun when mixing tunes for other people. only problem is when you have to switch from dance to rock in two days, but thats my problem ;)

The sonic jigsaw puzzle. amen!

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Message 11/12 11-Dec-02 @ 01:12 PM - RE: levels of different channels...?

BJT

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I have one complaint about sound engineers. A few friends of mine (in bands) have had there stuff done by mastering engineers for promo CDs. They were far from impressed. Infact one friend had this promo CD that was totally screwed by bad mixing, it made the band sound very crap indeed.

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Message 12/12 11-Dec-02 @ 01:19 PM - RE: levels of different channels...?

milan

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sure, happens all the time. my friends have this band where i have sort of a remote-engineer role, telling them what gear to get, how to use it, how to improve their sound etc, and they are now getting better results on their own than in any demo studio they previously recorded at. in fact, other people are now chasing *them* to record their projects. hehe... makes me proud, kinda

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