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Subject: midiman 2496 problem

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Original Message 1/27 17-Jan-03 @ 09:33 AM - midiman 2496 problem

corea

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Hey guys, I'm in big trouble here. It's my new Audiophile 2496. I'll describe how it went...

I got a P4/2Ghz, 512 DDR, and a Gigabyte GA-8IG motherboard (845 chipset). Besides the Audiophile I have only the network and the graphics card in my computer. I run Win2K with SP3, but the same problem persists on XP. So, I installed the card on the mobo, booted the OS, it found the soundcard, I installed the drivers, I haven't tried playing anything but the mixer was working and I could access the audiophile control panel.

Ok, destiny wanted that I uninstall the drivers and install them again (don't ask why), and from here my card doesn't work anymore. The OS doesn't even detect it, it detects it as unknown pci device. I tried switching PCI slots, taking away the network card, I tried stuff in BIOS, and nothing. Yesterday I freshly installed XP on a new HDD and I thought maybe it will detect now as the OS is clean and new, and the disk formatted... nothing. It detected it once after 10 attempts, found the drivers, everything perfect, and at the end of the driver installation said that he can't startup the hardware. So nothing again. I would think about returning the card IF it didn't work fine the first time and I was actually fiddling with the audiophile control panel and I heard some loud hiss because I got something wrong with the setup, but still, there was sound output from the card (damn! haven't played any music before uninstaling). Now the control panel doesn't work anymore... nothing works anymore.

Please help, I'm desperate.

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Message 2/27 17-Jan-03 @ 12:24 PM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

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yeah but oddly I have this urge to know why you had to de-install the card? - why?

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 3/27 17-Jan-03 @ 12:58 PM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

corea

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Cause when he autodetected the drivers he took the ones in the "WinXP" directory, and I was running Win2k ... so I said, ok it seems to be working, now let's deinstall and put the ones for Win2k.

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Message 4/27 17-Jan-03 @ 01:14 PM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

Anex

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Well the 2K prob sounds like it's got some driver fragments left on there somewhere (i.e. bits of the driver file that haven't been removed and are telling 2K to do something it can't etc.). But as for why it wouldn't work under a fresh XP, you got me.
Are you planning to use 2K? I would. Install 2K with only the graphics card in. Then install graphics drivers etc. Shut down, stick sound board in. Try installing the proper drivers. If it works this far, shut down and stick NIC in and install that. If it works, fine, if not then you know you got some prob between sound and NIC. You can try setting 'Force update ESCD' (I think!) to YES in the BIOS (this makes the machine re-assign all IRQ's etc. Sometimes works). Otherwise you could set the resources controls in BIOS to manual and fiddle about but it is a pain, takes ages, 2K won't like and half the time ignores it anyway or you could try a diff NIC.
If the sound card won't install full stop I'd say try it in a diff machine if you can, if it works there you may just be stuck- it might not like some part of your setup but you could try BIOS updating etc. but if it gives you same probs in another machine, the card is forked.

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Message 5/27 17-Jan-03 @ 08:53 PM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

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yeah, but he installed the OS on a fresh drive - sounds like the bios then - is it set to NON plug n Play OS ?

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Message 6/27 17-Jan-03 @ 10:44 PM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

Anex

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Well I read it as it worked once on 2k but wouldn't work on a fresh XP install?
In my experience the 'non P&P OS' has virtually no effect at all, I think it is just left over from the old days of 95revA etc. but obviously everything is worth trying.
I'd still go thro the install step by step just to give you more of an idea of what is going on. Certainly flash to the newest bios as the bios doesn't often cause card errors and if it does, it's usually cuz it is not detecting the card correctly.

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Message 7/27 18-Jan-03 @ 10:25 AM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

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seems odd. r u sure the card isnt fucked? - I'd use a NON plug N Play OS setting in bios assign pci slot 3 to irq 5 manualy and chuck it in slot 5. whatever xp finds it as change it to pci multimedia device - if you cant do that when it's detected (change the 'type of device' found), then boot without the card and install the drivers manualy as a 'pci multimedia device' then reboot it with the card IN - mebbe it'll take then?

dunno if midiman has issues with winxp tho they do have some or did have some bad driver issues a while back with 2k & xp

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Message 8/27 18-Jan-03 @ 11:52 AM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

corea

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Ok here I am. A little bit more clever than 2 days ago, and slowly becoming a hardware expert.

So, now I'm fiddling with XP, and I tried like this. I took away ALL the cards I had inside (AGP graphic card - 845 chipset can run with its own graphics, and network card), Midiman included, I disconnected the ZIP drive, so I had an empty mobo and a hdd and a cdrom. In the UPDATED bios (jumped from version 1 to version 5, didn't make any difference...) I disabled practically everything, serial ports, parallel port, sound (of course, this from the beginning), game port...etc. I had the bare system. I went to XP and uninstalled Midiman drivers I put manually, and left some drivers on the HDD. I turned off everything, inserted the Audiophile in the slot where it always worked before (PCI2) and booted. Ok, what happened.

XP installed automatically the card with the drivers I left for him on the hdd (without saying anything, so called "silent" install

)BUT in the device manager he sais the card doesn't work because of a conflict, and he advises me to disable some other device to make it work. If you read carefully, there's nothing else in my machine. BUT I go and fiddle with Microsofts System Info utility and I see that some PCI Bus adresses are in conflict with those of "DBM SMBus Controller" and "DMA Controller", whatever they are...

The conclusion is I already got this conflict on my mobo by default, but this doesn't disturb the system in normal conditions, but it does disturb the midiman in the PCI slot with the conflict.

Anyway... I'll go and srew around with some memory adresses...

I'll keep you informed

if you got other ideas, drop 'em here...

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Message 9/27 18-Jan-03 @ 11:57 AM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

Kosta

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I might just add that I also own Audiophile 2496, and actually tried the card in the several machines. In my ASUS P4B, Milan's Epox, and some old Intel mobo we have at work. Everywhere when I put it in the card was detected as Unknown PCI Device and as such it would be with the yellow sign in the Device Manager. Then I would go to update driver and manually search for the driver in the appropirate folder (I have XP, so there was no W2k to fiddle about, though on Intel computer I installed W2k versions onto W2k).

Anyway, I never found that pnp BIOS to be useful. It never affected any card installations or performance. So I left it on.

Anyway, my Delta is on IRQ 18, in ACPI mode.
Greetings.

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Message 10/27 18-Jan-03 @ 01:08 PM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

Anex

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Hmmmmm the whole point of PnP OS's is that they work around those silly conflicts. I don't know how long you've been computing for but basically, back in the day, to install a piece of hardware you had to mess around with jumpers left right and centre to stop the card conflicting with HDD controllers etc.
So I'd say if your card is doing that, it's either broken or incompatible with your main board (that isn't as uncommon as you might think). Either way it sounds like your probably gonna have to take it back. Maybe ask to try another one?

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Message 11/27 18-Jan-03 @ 02:16 PM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

Kosta

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'Ello

Hehe, old days with jumpers are very well known to me. I've been doing that back in old year 1994 I think when I got my first 486

Thing is with his card, that as you said, it's probably incompatible. Changing a mobo would also probably solve the problem.

Only one thing: audiophile doesn't have any jumpers, so far I know.

Kosta

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Message 12/27 18-Jan-03 @ 02:22 PM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

Anex

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No, it won't have jumpers.
Changing the main board is hardly an acceptable solution tho is it.

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Message 13/27 18-Jan-03 @ 05:03 PM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

psylichon

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wait a minute here, do you have ACPI enabled in the BIOS? If so, I would bet that's your problem. It seems once XP is set up on a mobo with ACPI enabled, it's impossible to turn ACPI off, and it can cause problems like what you're describing here (or solve them, depending on who you are apparently).

The reason I know this is because I recently had my motherboard replaced by a computer shop (would have done it myself, but troubleshooting time and laziness was a factor in this case). When I got it back home, I noticed they had changed the order of my PCI cards and all the BIOS settings were at default (including ACPI being enabled). Well, XP apparently saw it as a new motherboard because of that (even though it's the exact same model as what I had before) and set it up with ACPI in mind. I put my cards back in their proper order (necessary due to IRQ sharing with the IDE controller and AGP), put things back one at a time, but for the life of me could not get rid of the little yellow exclamation point from hell.

Obviously, simply disabling ACPI was not enough. I had to do that, and THEN Ghost over an old image of my last OS backup when ACPI was disabled. Then it worked just like before.

Long story short, check out that ACPI shit. It can be a bitch.

psy

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Message 14/27 18-Jan-03 @ 06:05 PM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

Anex

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You are supposed to have ACPI enabled in XP/2K. It isn't shit, the card drivers are shit if they can't operate under ACPI. Alot of systems won't shut down properly with it disabled and alot of machines won't operate without it e.g. windows will not run on my dual CPU systems with ACPI disabled.

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Message 15/27 18-Jan-03 @ 06:35 PM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

psylichon

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just giving my experience and what worked for me. Take it like you would 2 cents.

[shrug]

psy

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Message 16/27 18-Jan-03 @ 11:40 PM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

Anex

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Nah sorry man, wasn't tryin to put you down, it's just you shouldn't have to do work arounds like that which stop other stuff working properly just cuz the card manufacturers didn't write the drivers properly. If thats what you gotta do, thats what you gotta do but I'd take my card back before I had to do something like that.

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Message 17/27 19-Jan-03 @ 03:19 AM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

Kosta

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'ellow

To ACPI or not to ACPI. I've installed more than just one computer with ACPI, and on each it worked more than just well. Though, ACPI aparently presents a problem in the case like psylichon's. There's always exception to the rule...(now, we ARE talking Microsoft here!)

I would not suspect ACPI in this case, since obviously the card isn't even being detected after rebooting.

Confidential source tells me that he tried his card in two another machines, and that it just had the same problem - so, we all know now that he should search very veeeery hard to find his bill! :o)

Greetings, Kosta

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Message 18/27 19-Jan-03 @ 08:49 AM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

influx

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could it be as simple as remnants in the registry?

just a comment, but I have my XP setup in standard PC mode...and havent had any probs

kinda wonderin why thats commonly suggested everywhere Ive read for audio setups...

lets you manually set IRQs, no?

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Message 19/27 19-Jan-03 @ 09:44 AM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

milan

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yeah, and thats what i've been suggesting. but if 3 different pc's cant install it properly, thats more suspicious, no? i mean, audiophile is one of the most trouble-free soundcards around as far as i know.

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Message 20/27 19-Jan-03 @ 01:37 PM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

Anex

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Kosta: ACPI is funny, don't think you can really diagnose a problem as being ACPI or not unless you've actually found it yourself (if you get me). I certainly wouldn't have expected not to even be able to INSTALL 2K on a dual CPU machine without ACPI on, but thats the way it is.

Anywho I think take the thing back is the conclusion on this one

Be nice to know whats going on tho.

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Message 21/27 20-Jan-03 @ 08:20 AM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

corea

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I tried it on 3 different pc's and it always gets detected as PCI Device, and after I install the drivers manually it remains with a yellow exclamation mark in the device manager. Always the same... different computers, different OS's, and on mine I freshly reinstalled XP for 3 times and I really tried everything. No luck for me... I'm taking it back if they want it back without the bill...

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Message 22/27 20-Jan-03 @ 01:17 PM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

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check the pcware section tips & tricks link - I added some stuff & a link about installing xp/2k in different configs - there's a link to a discussion on another forum which is useful, and the other entry is a MS page about it.

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Message 23/27 20-Jan-03 @ 06:07 PM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

corea

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Tnx k ... what tells me that I somehow burned the soundcard (dunno how, I installed various cards a thousand times and I'm not new with hardware) is the fact that when I first installed it worked. And now it doesn't work anymore... on 3 different pc's that is.

I called the store where I took it and they said the bill's no problem and that they have serial numbers of product they sell, to it's ok, they'll replace it. Lucky me, phew... I can't fckn wait for this soundcard after all I've been thru...

And yeah, tnx for all the useful feedback. Maybe not in the particular case, but it could be useful for someone else.

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Message 24/27 12-Feb-03 @ 08:49 AM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

corea

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I just wanted to say that this story finally finished well. That card was faulty, I finally returned it (without a bill!!! big up to the guys at the store) and they gave me a new one. I put it in a PCI slot, turned on the computer, XP found the card, it installed the drivers from the cd and it just took off without rebooting (it took me 2 minutes to complete everything, compare that to 4 days of going crazy with the faulty card). The soundcard is kicking ass!

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Message 25/27 12-Feb-03 @ 10:09 AM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

milan

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hehe wicked! so... we gonna make some music now or what?

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Message 26/27 12-Feb-03 @ 03:30 PM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

corea

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Oh I would say that we're gonna produce some fine a$$ beats & breaks. Everybody, watch out!

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Message 27/27 13-Feb-03 @ 02:45 PM - RE: midiman 2496 problem

Bit Crusher

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I had to remove oem.inf and pnf files to get my dirvers to work one time. Dont just randomly start removing these files if its not a clean install. Back them up and then mess around. If you remove those then windows doesnt know where to look for the drivers and it wont automagically install the broken ones.

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