My mixes sound too harsh...help!

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Subject: My mixes sound too harsh...help!

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Original Message 1/18 24-Jan-03 @ 09:05 AM - My mixes sound too harsh...help!

Jan

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My mixes always sound too harsh - My kicks never sound smooth like in other people's tracks. I compress them to give them thwack, but always too loud/harsh. Then there is a bass overload when a bass and kick come together. I compress everything, but how do I eq it to get it to gell and not sound so unpleasant?

many thanks,

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Message 2/18 24-Jan-03 @ 09:10 AM - RE: My mixes sound too harsh...help!

Maarten

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I have the same problem... this is why I use loads of distortion to hide it.

I dunno.. maybe it's your gain or other frequencies getting in the way?

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Message 3/18 24-Jan-03 @ 10:43 AM - RE: My mixes sound too harsh...help!

Dominic

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Try dialing in a 3db lo mid cut on both kick and bass, removing 260-360 hertz. Also compression helps loads.

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Message 4/18 24-Jan-03 @ 02:39 PM - RE: My mixes sound too harsh...help!

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unless the compression emphasizes the harshness

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Message 5/18 24-Jan-03 @ 03:07 PM - RE: My mixes sound too harsh...help!

milan

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Jan, can it be you are overdoing it? eqing and compressing everything for loudness and brightness? how does the mix sound with no compression or eq? have you tried making a mix just with fader volume and then slowly one by one removing unwanted frequencies, and adding just enough compression to remove any flabbyness? thing is, art of the mix consists of using the right sounds to start with, and then carefully tweaking things to blend better. removing instead of adding etc... take your time and take it easy, try not to hype things up too much just for the sake of doing it... good luck.

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Message 6/18 24-Jan-03 @ 03:28 PM - RE: My mixes sound too harsh...help!

BJT

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Try rolling of the hi end, try -3dB an octave.
Little known fact that a sound moved an octave higher is twice as loud. What program are you using for EQing? (just wondering about the filters, poor filter can make it sound harsh and digital).

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Message 7/18 24-Jan-03 @ 03:29 PM - RE: My mixes sound too harsh...help!

milan

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"sound moved an octave higher is twice as loud" say what? thats definitely a little known fact

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Message 8/18 24-Jan-03 @ 03:58 PM - RE: My mixes sound too harsh...help!

psylichon

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I think he means that human ears are more sensitive to higher frequencies, so it takes more power to make a low-frequency sound as loud as a high-frequency sound. I don't think it's 10 dB/octave though.

I'm willing to bet, Jan, that's you're simply mixing too loud. You get your drums rockin' but then you start adding other things and you keep nudging up faders until the fader creep has everything blasting, compressed, and lifeless.

Kill all your compressors, group all your faders and drop them all down 6 dB and work from there. It's ok if your main mix buss meters aren't hitting 0 dBfs... that's what a limiter is for! Digital headroom is really lame and is something you always have to keep in mind.

psy

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Message 9/18 24-Jan-03 @ 04:01 PM - RE: My mixes sound too harsh...help!

milan

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ah bollox. its louder if its in the mid range, but if you go past C5 or whatever its bound to get quieter as you move towards the other boundary of the hearing range. you're probably right about the clipping thing, that could very well be a part of his problem.

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Message 10/18 24-Jan-03 @ 04:37 PM - RE: My mixes sound too harsh...help!

psylichon

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yah, m, you're right. Fletcher-Munson curves and such.

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Message 11/18 24-Jan-03 @ 05:32 PM - RE: My mixes sound too harsh...help!

nomad

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maybe look up 'gibb effect' or 'dac overshoot' as well - dunno really how awful it is but it was new to me.

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Message 12/18 24-Jan-03 @ 05:48 PM - RE: My mixes sound too harsh...help!

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what's the "gibb effect"? is that the one where
one girly-singing brother is not obnoxious
enough so you need three? sort of like the
"hamlisch maneuver"? you know, the one
where someone's choking on food, so you
start singing "feelings, whoa oh oh feelings"
which causes them to retch, clearing the
windpipe.

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Message 13/18 24-Jan-03 @ 06:15 PM - RE: My mixes sound too harsh...help!

nomad

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haha

no, basically most D/As are designed with no headroom (because you can't go above digital zero... right? right?) well, if you get the right (wrong) sample sequence, because of interpolation you might... and with no headroom, this equals 'clipping'...

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Message 14/18 24-Jan-03 @ 06:41 PM - RE: My mixes sound too harsh...help!

psylichon

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hmmm... veeeely interlesting, nomad. Kinda like how when you use clip restoration in Sound Forge, you have to specify how much to bring down the level initially to allow for "interpolative" fill-in overshoots. Makes sense. Is this design (no headroom) still the norm or do modern converters compensate for this?

Heh, I really don't think this is dude's main problem though

psy

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Message 15/18 25-Jan-03 @ 04:58 PM - RE: My mixes sound too harsh...help!

BJT

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harsh.sme

How'd you know I'm a male, I am, just wondering.

What I meant to say is that if you take a sine wave and double its frequency (thus moving it up an octave) it sound twice as loud, even though its the same amplitude.

The SynC modular attachment shows this.

I remember this article where this old sound engineer used to mix in pink noise into his mixes to get the levels right, interesting idea. Anyway he stressed it had to be pink-noise not white noise because pink-noise has the same power per octave.

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Message 16/18 25-Jan-03 @ 06:18 PM - RE: My mixes sound too harsh...help!

Jan

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Thanks! I'll give your suggestions a go. I always make my kicks very loud - They peak around -3 dB. Maybe the kick doesn't need to be the loudest element in the mix? Is it ok for my whole mix to peak at around -6dB? I always wondered how you work out which part should be loudest?

Thanks for all your help,

Jan

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Message 17/18 25-Jan-03 @ 06:31 PM - RE: My mixes sound too harsh...help!

milan

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use your ears, innit!!! NO other way about it!

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Message 18/18 27-Jan-03 @ 09:59 AM - RE: My mixes sound too harsh...help!

Dominic

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You could try the old A/B thing. Its what I do. Just choose a track you like and rip it off a CD. (CD is better than vinyl cos you ain't got to record it into the computer). Then import the track into your sequencer and assign it to 2 outputs down your desk. Set the faders and gain pots on your guide channels so the meter bridge just flickers at the top during the loudest bit of the guide track. Then you'll be able to see what level everything is at as it comes in and out of the guide track.

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