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Subject: Pitch n Key-Follow...

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Original Message 1/8 02-Mar-03 @ 07:05 PM Edit: 02-Mar-03 | 07:11 PM - Pitch n Key-Follow...

Steve Roughley

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The art of creating an entirely nice sounding bass patch still eludes me to some degree. I know I've asked countless questions regarding synthesising bass here, but here's another couple for you:

1) Whenever I create a bass patch, the pitch always seems to waver during the attack and decay making each note sound off, and even silly, to some degree. Now I know that this is due to modulating the filters (filter envelopes) which will alter the harmonics and root note, and as we all know, filter envelopes are a necessary part of creating almost any patch. The problem is I can't for the life of me find a way to counteract it enough to stop it interfering with the overall tone that I am trying to achieve! I have been trying to solve this little problem for months now using pitch modulation and various other remedies but I have given up and am enlisting the help of you guys.

2) Secondly, do you guys ever alter the key-follow settings for the filters on your bass patches? If so, exactly when and why. I know what the settings do, but am unsure if it ever necessary to enhance the quality of a bass patch.

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 2/8 03-Mar-03 @ 01:42 PM - RE: Pitch n Key-Follow...

Filthy McNasty

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Dunno how much help this is but I use the es2 for bass. I always have the "Oscillator Start" mode on "hard". I think this means that the oscillators begin at the same phase position of their waveform each time the es2 receives a note on message. MAkes bass much more punchy.

You have a virus right? Maybe you can do the same. Not sure if that helps mate but somebody who is more of a techy synth head might know.

Psy?

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Message 3/8 03-Mar-03 @ 04:39 PM - RE: Pitch n Key-Follow...

knowa

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maybe it's portamento/glide?

are you sure you're not just overthinking it? maybe everything sounds "off" because you're listening too closely. an mp3 example would be helpful.

fwiw, the filters will NOT alter the root note, but will resonate at a frequency which may or may not be the same as the note you play...usually you can just keep turing the knob and hitting the note and it will be obvious when the freq matches the pitch of the note. sometimes resonating a fifth above sounds dope too. you can just turn the res down if the filter is coloring the pitch too much.

if you have a virus it's pretty easy to make a nice bass (for trance, that is). My Rx is to go to one of those moog presets and play a nice bassline and not worry about it.

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Message 4/8 03-Mar-03 @ 07:37 PM Edit: 03-Mar-03 | 07:39 PM - RE: Pitch n Key-Follow...

Steve Roughley

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Cheers for the replies fellas.

Yeah, I know about the Osc-Start function, the closest thing that the Virus has is the Punch and the Phase Init functions, which give a boost to the attack and alter the timing of the osc phase respectively.

"fwiw, the filters will NOT alter the root note"

Are you sure about this? I am using a Highpass and a Lowpass filter in serial. And am modulating these to add brightness to the attack. From what I remember of my music theory (though it's been a while and I might be completely wrong) every harmonic is a higher frequency than the fundamental (the first harmonic, for example, is an octave above the fundamental), so if you use a highpass filter to cut high into the sound then you will be removing the lower frequencies, and could leave you with only the harmonics, which I am sure will alter the fundamental?!

But... you have a very good point in that I am probably analysing the sound too much. I'll give my track a listen while doing something distracting to see if the problem really stands out.

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 5/8 03-Mar-03 @ 08:35 PM - RE: Pitch n Key-Follow...

milan

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too tired to type, but ear can make out the root note from harmonics even if the root freq. is not present. or so i've been taught.

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Message 6/8 03-Mar-03 @ 09:36 PM - RE: Pitch n Key-Follow...

Steve Roughley

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Aaaahhh. Would that be Psycho-Acoustics? Something I have always wanted to read up on.

Steve.

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Message 7/8 03-Mar-03 @ 11:47 PM - RE: Pitch n Key-Follow...

errata

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Allow us to assure you that even in filtering the sound you still have a root in the note that is fundamental. I've never changed key by shifting the filter.

When you open the filter you can introduce new harmonics but not so "shifty" that you'll change the note...

e

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Message 8/8 04-Mar-03 @ 04:38 PM - RE: Pitch n Key-Follow...

Deano

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The filter cannot alter the pitch of the note - only the harmonic content, unless you have the resonance set so high that the filter will self- resonate. In this case the filter becomes another oscillator and can add another note to the equation. Also are you sure you don't have any of the envelopes or LFOs routed to oscillator pitch? This could cause the effect you describe.

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