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Forums - The lounge
Subject: Destroy All Media
Viewing all 53 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Original Message 1/53 05-May-03 @ 11:26 PM - Destroy All Media
check this out:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/05/04/IN164833.DTL
What's your take on all this you guys? Some extremely lucid points here... A good read!
e
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/05/04/IN164833.DTL
What's your take on all this you guys? Some extremely lucid points here... A good read!
e
Message 2/53 06-May-03 @ 12:15 AM Edit: 06-May-03 | 12:18 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
Steve Roughley
Posts: 1178
Link?: No link
File?: No file
Nice, romantic ideas. Sure enough, the current mainstream mass production entertainment machine is going to go away, but it is already aware of that itsself, and many major companies, such as Sony, are starting to sign 'talented artists' as a pre-emptive measure. Thing is, can you actually imagine the 'Brittany Spears, or Backstreet Boys' (what a bloody unfortunate name) fans of today ever enjoying the "subcultural formations such as hip-hop, country music and punk"??? It won't happen. We are all human, and as long as we exist these things will exist. We should appreciate what they do for the rest of us (think about it) and should let-be the people who believe that they enjoy it (try not to think abourt this one :P ). It will cause us less stress in the long run. 
Regards.
Steve.
Regards.
Steve.
Message 3/53 06-May-03 @ 03:49 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
hmmm.
sad thing is there is definitely a facet of society that thinks everything should be free...that they are entitled to anything they want, simply because they want it. NOW.
and...this goes against the entire foundation of our society!
if these folks are people who refuse to place value on money AT ALL, IE never, NEVER expect payment for time, services rendered, artistic endeavors, etc, well then, they are a fringe group doing something different and at least they are consistent
but what I see the most is little fucking bitches griping about this that and the other thing...SW should be free..why should I pay for music, etc..and then in a millisecond theyre SCREAMING that someone stole their song and on and on.
hypocrisy is a disgusting trait, but the prevalence nowadays is...mind boggling!
I would love to see ALL, yes ALL monolithic corporations destroyed and then perhaps rebuilt with ethical economics as a basis, instead of the good ol "bottom line is all that matters, everyone else be damned"
this will, of course, really fuck things up here and everywhere..if it were to happen, but...the whole unchecked capitalism thing is out of control, and somethings got to give
sad thing is there is definitely a facet of society that thinks everything should be free...that they are entitled to anything they want, simply because they want it. NOW.
and...this goes against the entire foundation of our society!
if these folks are people who refuse to place value on money AT ALL, IE never, NEVER expect payment for time, services rendered, artistic endeavors, etc, well then, they are a fringe group doing something different and at least they are consistent
but what I see the most is little fucking bitches griping about this that and the other thing...SW should be free..why should I pay for music, etc..and then in a millisecond theyre SCREAMING that someone stole their song and on and on.
hypocrisy is a disgusting trait, but the prevalence nowadays is...mind boggling!
I would love to see ALL, yes ALL monolithic corporations destroyed and then perhaps rebuilt with ethical economics as a basis, instead of the good ol "bottom line is all that matters, everyone else be damned"
this will, of course, really fuck things up here and everywhere..if it were to happen, but...the whole unchecked capitalism thing is out of control, and somethings got to give
Message 4/53 06-May-03 @ 04:08 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
what!? unchecked capitalism?! you're kidding right??!! i wanna know where??!!!!???
lemme at it!
get outta the way.....
lemme at it!
get outta the way.....
Message 5/53 06-May-03 @ 04:11 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
heh. you know what I meant, man.
people without ethics can only create a system that is equally devoid.
people without ethics can only create a system that is equally devoid.
Message 6/53 06-May-03 @ 06:20 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
and yet our most ethical control us and define the morals of our legal system..., well that's nice
Message 7/53 06-May-03 @ 08:31 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
what i find disturbing is not the indoctrination of morality, but the indoctrination of immorality..
Message 8/53 06-May-03 @ 08:46 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
heh. people seem to think we're shit from the start and are taught to be "good"
maybe we're good from the start and are taught to be shit?
maybe we're good from the start and are taught to be shit?
Message 9/53 06-May-03 @ 08:58 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
well....it's easier to teach people to lower themselves.
we're always closer to earth than heaven....so why even bother?
those who try anything else usually get knocked down pretty hard.
we're always closer to earth than heaven....so why even bother?
those who try anything else usually get knocked down pretty hard.
Message 10/53 06-May-03 @ 10:14 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
Wake me when the shooting starts. Actually, wake me when the CEOs are in the crosshairs. Anybody else getting shot is just CNN fodder.
Message 11/53 07-May-03 @ 05:39 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
yeah, the guy is one of these bright folks who craft's good arguments without acknowledging the whole picture...
What struck me most was the bit about "damned fine music was made before the recording of music" or however he said it! What he fails to mention is that most of those great musicians/composers lived as indentured servants to their moneyed supporters!
It is a fine pipe dream... and he makes a decent point in that most artists can't make a living at it NOW!!!! so what's the harm? but I dunno... Wondering over here at where a median can be found.
Influx is sooooooooo right. It is mostly brats STEALING music and then trying to justify it as punk rock! shrug, what else is new?
e
What struck me most was the bit about "damned fine music was made before the recording of music" or however he said it! What he fails to mention is that most of those great musicians/composers lived as indentured servants to their moneyed supporters!
It is a fine pipe dream... and he makes a decent point in that most artists can't make a living at it NOW!!!! so what's the harm? but I dunno... Wondering over here at where a median can be found.
Influx is sooooooooo right. It is mostly brats STEALING music and then trying to justify it as punk rock! shrug, what else is new?
e
Message 12/53 07-May-03 @ 07:34 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
oh, influx, without a doubt, without a doubt..
did i ever tell the one about the woman in the nursery? i'm watering 15 gallon citrus so she might not have seen me.. parks her stroller, starts tickling the kid.. soon the kid ain't larfin, the kid is cryin.. then screamin.. then it goes on, and the empathic sensations i'm getting from it are like passing my first big kidney stones, the ones that rip thru your gut doubled over immobilised for hours... and she's saying.. "the tiger's got you.. the tiger's got you now.."
without pain, there is no drive circumcision is sex conditioning.. control by sex instinct..
think about nature. how many animals destroy wantonly, not out of need? wild dogs.. wild, domesticated dogs.. human children are taught to pull the wings off flies, cruelty doesn't come naturally.
did i ever tell the one about the woman in the nursery? i'm watering 15 gallon citrus so she might not have seen me.. parks her stroller, starts tickling the kid.. soon the kid ain't larfin, the kid is cryin.. then screamin.. then it goes on, and the empathic sensations i'm getting from it are like passing my first big kidney stones, the ones that rip thru your gut doubled over immobilised for hours... and she's saying.. "the tiger's got you.. the tiger's got you now.."
without pain, there is no drive
circumcision is sex conditioning.. control by sex instinct..think about nature. how many animals destroy wantonly, not out of need? wild dogs.. wild, domesticated dogs.. human children are taught to pull the wings off flies, cruelty doesn't come naturally.
Message 13/53 07-May-03 @ 07:46 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
you've told that story before XOXOS, and it's a good one.
We're too damned smart, is what it is! Too smart for our own good!
e
We're too damned smart, is what it is! Too smart for our own good!
e
Message 17/53 08-May-03 @ 03:37 AM Edit: 08-May-03 | 03:39 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
Argh, you non-bold-tag-ending mofo!
There. Begin 2 cents:
I've always thought that the arts go deep into poorly-understood aspects of our universe. Much more so than your average 9-5 "day job". I think (hope), one day, people will realize that you're not SUPPOSED to make gain from what you create. The only reason to do it is because it's what you want to do and that's beautiful. Perhaps the fall of the artistic industries will trickle down into more "trite" professions and society will finally realize that the race for the mighty dollar isn't the point.
The fact is that you CANNOT copy-protect information, be it a song, a movie, an algorithm, or WHATEVER... they just haven't come up with a way to make information "MINE". If this doesn't indicate a deeper, natural truth, then I don't know what does. Ideas are meant to be shared, without expectation of return. How on earth are we supposed to progress as a species otherwise?
Perhaps the reason you can't safeguard what you create is because it isn't yours. You pulled it from somewhere in the universe that belongs to everyone, and sudddenly thought you were hot shit and deserved reward for it. Your reward should be that you could tap into that unity in the first place.
Not everyone thinks like this, granted.
And I'm totally with you on the hipocrisy tip, influx. Lots of people love to spout off on a philisophical paradigm while breaking the laws of our current, physical one.... and still expecting to get theirs in the end. It's a delicate balance to live in the system given to you, and to dream in the other. It's something I struggle with daily...
psy
There. Begin 2 cents:
I've always thought that the arts go deep into poorly-understood aspects of our universe. Much more so than your average 9-5 "day job". I think (hope), one day, people will realize that you're not SUPPOSED to make gain from what you create. The only reason to do it is because it's what you want to do and that's beautiful. Perhaps the fall of the artistic industries will trickle down into more "trite" professions and society will finally realize that the race for the mighty dollar isn't the point.
The fact is that you CANNOT copy-protect information, be it a song, a movie, an algorithm, or WHATEVER... they just haven't come up with a way to make information "MINE". If this doesn't indicate a deeper, natural truth, then I don't know what does. Ideas are meant to be shared, without expectation of return. How on earth are we supposed to progress as a species otherwise?
Perhaps the reason you can't safeguard what you create is because it isn't yours. You pulled it from somewhere in the universe that belongs to everyone, and sudddenly thought you were hot shit and deserved reward for it. Your reward should be that you could tap into that unity in the first place.
Not everyone thinks like this, granted.
And I'm totally with you on the hipocrisy tip, influx. Lots of people love to spout off on a philisophical paradigm while breaking the laws of our current, physical one.... and still expecting to get theirs in the end. It's a delicate balance to live in the system given to you, and to dream in the other. It's something I struggle with daily...
psy
Message 18/53 08-May-03 @ 03:44 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
DAYAMMMMMM DUDE!!!
that was some DEEEEEP shit.
lemme go back and re-read that.
"Perhaps the reason you can't safeguard what you create is because it isn't yours. You pulled it from somewhere in the universe that belongs to everyone, and sudddenly thought you were hot shit and deserved reward for it. Your reward should be that you could tap into that unity in the first place."
man...for a skinny fuckin golf-player who wears halter tops while swinging tennis rackets you got some good insight there!
that was some DEEEEEP shit.
lemme go back and re-read that.
"Perhaps the reason you can't safeguard what you create is because it isn't yours. You pulled it from somewhere in the universe that belongs to everyone, and sudddenly thought you were hot shit and deserved reward for it. Your reward should be that you could tap into that unity in the first place."
man...for a skinny fuckin golf-player who wears halter tops while swinging tennis rackets you got some good insight there!
Message 19/53 08-May-03 @ 04:40 AM Edit: 08-May-03 | 04:41 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
I wasn't swinging that racket. I was rocking out to The Monkees' "Valerie"
And that's no lie. Did it for my "girlfriend" on a "date" in 3rd grade... that's how cool I looked doing it!
And that's no lie. Did it for my "girlfriend" on a "date" in 3rd grade... that's how cool I looked doing it!
Message 21/53 08-May-03 @ 07:04 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
"It's something I struggle with daily..."
nah, i really don't think you do..
nah, i really don't think you do..
Message 24/53 08-May-03 @ 08:26 PM Edit: 08-May-03 | 08:32 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
Psy, I couldn't agree with you more. The ability to create, the act of creation, is the closest to God one can get. I've always believed that, if one has been endowed with a good singing voice, the ability to play an instrument well, or command a language to the extent of poetry, etc., then one is beholden to a higher power to develop such abilities. These are things that not everyone has the ability or talent to do, regardless of technological advancements, and there is a "cosmic" responsibility to not squander such ability and talent. I don't mean to sound like a religious or new age nutter but this separates those so endowed from the rest of the world. The ability to create something where once there was nothing is, outside of our inherent ability to procreate, as close to "God" as it gets. There is no need of religion for one who creates.
Message 25/53 08-May-03 @ 09:19 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
but even if you suck it's better to create than to watch tv. I'm not sure where god stands on this though.
Message 26/53 08-May-03 @ 10:02 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
Hey, Psy... buddhists have this idea of two truths that works well here.
There is the ultimate truth, (in this case, which isn't the buddhist case, just to be clear on that) that here is the moment and (in the context of this discussion) we do not "own" our music because it has come from some higher state at which we are all one and beholden to the gifts of our experience. Does the shamann own wisdom that he channels to the tribe?
And then there's the relative truth of our conditioned existence. We have to pay bills, BUY GEAR (at least at first) and, honestly, the best musicians are hose who are able to devote all of their time to it. 'Cause channeling the Loa takes a certain amount of dedication, and energy. Our Society does not support such behavior or talent in and of itself... so the artist, the medium, must sell his creations in order to earn a living. Must the Shaman starve in order to be useful?
I'm not too sure on where all the different gods stand ono this issue either. But it's clear to me, that they are taking little interest either way and that we'd better find our own way of coping with this particular problem, eh?
e
There is the ultimate truth, (in this case, which isn't the buddhist case, just to be clear on that) that here is the moment and (in the context of this discussion) we do not "own" our music because it has come from some higher state at which we are all one and beholden to the gifts of our experience. Does the shamann own wisdom that he channels to the tribe?
And then there's the relative truth of our conditioned existence. We have to pay bills, BUY GEAR (at least at first) and, honestly, the best musicians are hose who are able to devote all of their time to it. 'Cause channeling the Loa takes a certain amount of dedication, and energy. Our Society does not support such behavior or talent in and of itself... so the artist, the medium, must sell his creations in order to earn a living. Must the Shaman starve in order to be useful?
I'm not too sure on where all the different gods stand ono this issue either. But it's clear to me, that they are taking little interest either way and that we'd better find our own way of coping with this particular problem, eh?
e
Message 27/53 08-May-03 @ 10:07 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
Actually I find watching American Idol to be quite rewarding. Remember I created you in my likeness. Watch that new Jim Carrey movie and all will be revealed.
Message 28/53 09-May-03 @ 02:19 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
E,
That quote looks suspiciously familiar. I wonder why?
;-)
A few thoughts if I may. The fact that there exists in this state of our mental, spiritual, physical, creative, and technological evolution any sort of economy at all seems both ludicrous and shameful to me. Humanity as both individual and group have attained a sufficient amount of communication, transportation, and just straight the fuck up knowledge to be able to completely rearrange both the face and the skeleton of what we are. Sadly, greed, fear and selfish ego have not left us all to the point where A)one can consider others' needs beyond one's own, B)some feel the need to have power and control over others. I don't mean advice and guidance, I mean control. C)where society places such rediculously high prioroty on individual whims of a certain few that others must go without some of the most basic essentials for their very lives to continue.
This whole concept of of Have and Have Not is complete and utter bullshit at this point. Most of the Waves, who 'need' so much more don't have any sort of creative outlet beyond the manipulation of others, with whatever tools they find easiest for their personal systems of value, for the purpose of aquiring more. When the fuck is enough enough? They'll never know. These are the types that need to be removed from their places of controlling others and studied, so that these elements and aspects of our personalities can be more fully understood, and integrated into our lives without causing such destruction in each other and ourselves.
For those with no interest in the good of others at all beyond themselves, or those simply lacking the capacity to see the good of others in an altruistic way (Psychotics, Sociopaths/)sychopaths, others with severe mental disorders) they too should be removed from the active element of society and studied. They to should not be treated cruelly, but studied, and the useful aspects of their differences understood, and put to the most productive uses that they can, however with more temperance than they are currently given. When those talents cannot be used, let them be satisfied in simulation. People like those who are fighting so hard to stay in control as we speak, both those with, and without names and faces.
NO HUMAN should EVER have to go without food, shelter, warmth, or health maintenance, regardless of their activities. Why there are people on the street begging for food or a place to sleep without fear of being brutalized, violated, or even disturbed by another human being is cause for shame in us all.
So, what is the major problem preventing the remedy of these problems? Overpopulation. There are still folks having more than one child. There are still people that consider their own selfish needs above the rest of the planet's. "I HAVE to have a baby!" "I HAVE to have another baby!!" A LOT of people lose their identity beyond raising children. Once they are parents, that's what they are.
I proposed a fairly simple solution to this, but nobody would bite because they're all WAY TOO FUCKING SELFISH. Imagine this:
A highly contageous virus that alters womens' bodies so that they only have ONE mentrual cycle every five years. No exception, no cure, nobody has the privelage of escaping this change. NOBODY, regardless of ethnic, spiritual, or financial background. If you miss it, too fucking bad. If you miss it every time, well that's ok too, it's part of life. Families of over ten children would be an impossiblity, and the likelihood of large families would be VERY small. No issues with pro-life or pro-choice. If the baby is not threatening the life of the mother, then she should have it, because there won't be that many humans to go around and if the parents can't support it, you can GUARANTEE that it will be adopted and put into a loving home.
Life will take on a whole new meaning and value. We will HAVE to reorganize our priorities and views with respect to the presence and absence of life. Nobody will be allowed to suffer poverty or ill treatment, because there simply won't be enough of a surplus of humanity to go around. People will HAVE to be much more respectful of themselves and each other, because there won't be so many replacements. We'll still have all of the technology, and knowledge, but we'll be able to invest more time and energy into educating individuals while the population thins. Eventually, it will redevelope another equilibrium, and medical technology will catch up, prolonging our lives to the point where the older problems may again arise, but the likelihood is much smaller.
Where do music and artistic creativity fit into this equation? Well, given our current abilities to produce food, and energy, people should be able to not have to experience a monetary economy, but rather an economy of creativity. Musicians and artists may very well be the peace-keepers and unitors of our society. Obviously our technology will continue to evolve, so that there will be even less of the haves and have nots ideally. In less than seven generations, we should could have this population thinned to a VERY easily manageable, and sustainable population with less than a tenth of the environmental impact we have now (barring nuclear or chemical warfare), as well as off world colonies. By the time the Sun flares up and swallows Mercury and Venus, our decendants should have long left this place, with a message of peace and hope toward any others that come to explore here. However, that will again require much less selfishness than we currently have both as a species, and individuals.
Our music and our art will serve as our identity to ourselves, and others not of this place.
On another note, it should be taken into account that one could also argue that music creates nothing, but rather simply reorganizes and redirects molecular movements with carefully ordered kinetic energy, distorting the normally present chaos. The creation itself is simply an abstract construct of logic and math occuring in the minds of all those capable of perceiving this. Even the origin of this creation is questionable, whether a product of the superego, the ego, the id, or the divine.
Ok, if your head doesn't hurt by now...go make some fuckin music.
Ape
That quote looks suspiciously familiar. I wonder why?
;-)
A few thoughts if I may. The fact that there exists in this state of our mental, spiritual, physical, creative, and technological evolution any sort of economy at all seems both ludicrous and shameful to me. Humanity as both individual and group have attained a sufficient amount of communication, transportation, and just straight the fuck up knowledge to be able to completely rearrange both the face and the skeleton of what we are. Sadly, greed, fear and selfish ego have not left us all to the point where A)one can consider others' needs beyond one's own, B)some feel the need to have power and control over others. I don't mean advice and guidance, I mean control. C)where society places such rediculously high prioroty on individual whims of a certain few that others must go without some of the most basic essentials for their very lives to continue.
This whole concept of of Have and Have Not is complete and utter bullshit at this point. Most of the Waves, who 'need' so much more don't have any sort of creative outlet beyond the manipulation of others, with whatever tools they find easiest for their personal systems of value, for the purpose of aquiring more. When the fuck is enough enough? They'll never know. These are the types that need to be removed from their places of controlling others and studied, so that these elements and aspects of our personalities can be more fully understood, and integrated into our lives without causing such destruction in each other and ourselves.
For those with no interest in the good of others at all beyond themselves, or those simply lacking the capacity to see the good of others in an altruistic way (Psychotics, Sociopaths/)sychopaths, others with severe mental disorders) they too should be removed from the active element of society and studied. They to should not be treated cruelly, but studied, and the useful aspects of their differences understood, and put to the most productive uses that they can, however with more temperance than they are currently given. When those talents cannot be used, let them be satisfied in simulation. People like those who are fighting so hard to stay in control as we speak, both those with, and without names and faces.
NO HUMAN should EVER have to go without food, shelter, warmth, or health maintenance, regardless of their activities. Why there are people on the street begging for food or a place to sleep without fear of being brutalized, violated, or even disturbed by another human being is cause for shame in us all.
So, what is the major problem preventing the remedy of these problems? Overpopulation. There are still folks having more than one child. There are still people that consider their own selfish needs above the rest of the planet's. "I HAVE to have a baby!" "I HAVE to have another baby!!" A LOT of people lose their identity beyond raising children. Once they are parents, that's what they are.
I proposed a fairly simple solution to this, but nobody would bite because they're all WAY TOO FUCKING SELFISH. Imagine this:
A highly contageous virus that alters womens' bodies so that they only have ONE mentrual cycle every five years. No exception, no cure, nobody has the privelage of escaping this change. NOBODY, regardless of ethnic, spiritual, or financial background. If you miss it, too fucking bad. If you miss it every time, well that's ok too, it's part of life. Families of over ten children would be an impossiblity, and the likelihood of large families would be VERY small. No issues with pro-life or pro-choice. If the baby is not threatening the life of the mother, then she should have it, because there won't be that many humans to go around and if the parents can't support it, you can GUARANTEE that it will be adopted and put into a loving home.
Life will take on a whole new meaning and value. We will HAVE to reorganize our priorities and views with respect to the presence and absence of life. Nobody will be allowed to suffer poverty or ill treatment, because there simply won't be enough of a surplus of humanity to go around. People will HAVE to be much more respectful of themselves and each other, because there won't be so many replacements. We'll still have all of the technology, and knowledge, but we'll be able to invest more time and energy into educating individuals while the population thins. Eventually, it will redevelope another equilibrium, and medical technology will catch up, prolonging our lives to the point where the older problems may again arise, but the likelihood is much smaller.
Where do music and artistic creativity fit into this equation? Well, given our current abilities to produce food, and energy, people should be able to not have to experience a monetary economy, but rather an economy of creativity. Musicians and artists may very well be the peace-keepers and unitors of our society. Obviously our technology will continue to evolve, so that there will be even less of the haves and have nots ideally. In less than seven generations, we should could have this population thinned to a VERY easily manageable, and sustainable population with less than a tenth of the environmental impact we have now (barring nuclear or chemical warfare), as well as off world colonies. By the time the Sun flares up and swallows Mercury and Venus, our decendants should have long left this place, with a message of peace and hope toward any others that come to explore here. However, that will again require much less selfishness than we currently have both as a species, and individuals.
Our music and our art will serve as our identity to ourselves, and others not of this place.
On another note, it should be taken into account that one could also argue that music creates nothing, but rather simply reorganizes and redirects molecular movements with carefully ordered kinetic energy, distorting the normally present chaos. The creation itself is simply an abstract construct of logic and math occuring in the minds of all those capable of perceiving this. Even the origin of this creation is questionable, whether a product of the superego, the ego, the id, or the divine.
Ok, if your head doesn't hurt by now...go make some fuckin music.
Ape
Message 29/53 09-May-03 @ 02:44 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
Back to the mass media, and the downfall of commerciality for a moment: fuck the majors. Small independant releases are very cool on vinyl, but this industry has become bloated beyond all reason. I think that as long as we have to have economy, there should be more acceptance and encouragement of smaller more obscure expressions. An example: luthiers, particularly bass luthiers. One look at that scene will show you that it's not at all about having what everybody else has, but rather having what everybody else does NOT have. A lot of bassists are purists, and it has become very much a time of conisseurs of tone, and class in expression. Sure there are still loads of new P-basses being sold too, but when one achieves a certain level of mastery in the instrument, often they will have one custom made for them, or even several. Not too many synth manufacturers doing that. I guess a custom modular system sorta counts, but I don't see nearly as many cats out there with custom modulars onstage as I do bassists with high end or custom instruments.
I also don't see as much encouragement to have custom instrumentation in the electronic scene as I do in bassists. Sure, everybody wants the baddest new...but typically from a large manufacturer and it's typically cheap. It would be really nice to see an evolution in that, where cats aren't playing with loads of so-so boxes, but rather just a few small, handmade/individualized pieces, giving them much more distinct and subtle character in their sound. That combined with an effort to create awareness and promote individuality in the taste of the consumer would be steps in the direction I'd certainly like to se things move in, especially where live performance is concerned. Kinda like what the Jazz scene used to be. Why keep it all low-brow?
Ape
I also don't see as much encouragement to have custom instrumentation in the electronic scene as I do in bassists. Sure, everybody wants the baddest new...but typically from a large manufacturer and it's typically cheap. It would be really nice to see an evolution in that, where cats aren't playing with loads of so-so boxes, but rather just a few small, handmade/individualized pieces, giving them much more distinct and subtle character in their sound. That combined with an effort to create awareness and promote individuality in the taste of the consumer would be steps in the direction I'd certainly like to se things move in, especially where live performance is concerned. Kinda like what the Jazz scene used to be. Why keep it all low-brow?
Ape
Message 30/53 09-May-03 @ 02:46 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
..and fuck any individual that calls themself God with the idea of being anything apart from anything or anybody else.
Message 31/53 09-May-03 @ 04:00 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
man that virus thing was the most frighteningly ludicrous thing Ive ever heard!
you want HUMAN scientists to create MORE organisms?
jeez louise! did I miss your point?
Im all for sterilization after one child. really I am...but a fuckin VIRUS?
ha!
wow.
(with all due respect;))
you want HUMAN scientists to create MORE organisms?
jeez louise! did I miss your point?
Im all for sterilization after one child. really I am...but a fuckin VIRUS?
ha!
wow.
(with all due respect;))
Message 32/53 09-May-03 @ 04:53 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
I feel your overpopulation argument, ape, but you would probably agree that no that no true social change will ever come from a governmental edict. If the govt. wasn't what you had in mind, who do you propose oversee the administration of your plan?
psy
psy
Message 33/53 09-May-03 @ 05:04 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
"nah, i really don't think you do.." -x
you're right. I lied... thought it made me sound all deep and shit.
Fuck I wish I could be consistent and pure.
psy
you're right. I lied... thought it made me sound all deep and shit.
Fuck I wish I could be consistent and pure.
psy
Message 34/53 09-May-03 @ 05:15 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
Ape, you missed my point entirely but I still wnat whatever it is you were on when you wrote that. Please.
Raise your hand if you know the difference between God and "God". ;)
Raise your hand if you know the difference between God and "God". ;)
Message 35/53 09-May-03 @ 09:08 AM Edit: 09-May-03 | 09:35 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
Then perhaps you do miss the point. This would not be governmental edict. It would be a biological factor of existence. No right or wrong, just fact, and the result being the actions required for survival of the human race. Acceptance of the fact that life must be preserved and respected by each and every one of us, or the entire race dies, and nobody takes ANYTHING with them. Nobody leaves anything to anybody else if folks don't get along cuz there will be nobody to leave it to. That's why it has to be contageous. It has to be non-discriminatory. The only things like that are typically micro-organisms. Of course in normal ones there are almost invariably some individuals that exhibit immunity. However there are plenty that have nearly no immunity, like HIV, or Herpes, or Ebola. I'm not suggesting any of those be unleashed in a widespread fashion, just this fertility modifier. Food for thought.
Ape
Ape
Message 36/53 09-May-03 @ 10:21 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
"However there are plenty that have nearly no immunity, like HIV, or Herpes, or Ebola. I'm not suggesting any of those be unleashed in a widespread fashion, just this fertility modifier"
unh....too late.
but...how about instead of some more than likely out of control becoming organism we fucking learn these things, and put them into action? I mean..it aint that fucking hard to realize that one child, maybe two, is ENOUGH!
Personally Id rather not relinquish MORE control to ANY "governing body"
ever
I want LESS, not more
unh....too late.
but...how about instead of some more than likely out of control becoming organism we fucking learn these things, and put them into action? I mean..it aint that fucking hard to realize that one child, maybe two, is ENOUGH!
Personally Id rather not relinquish MORE control to ANY "governing body"
ever
I want LESS, not more
Message 37/53 09-May-03 @ 11:21 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
"When the is enough enough?" it is never enough, think about envy.
"...removed from their places of controlling others and studied,..." who, by who and who chooses. Anyway it sounds scary and for someone who has been accused of controlling people - you might be in the firing line
I don't know if you have kids or whether you think you are a good parent P but I see parents going through great sacrafice and pain to have first or subsequent children.
Anyway overpopulation is not the cause - competition is, and competition is built in - evolution. The rest of your scheme sounds like Ford MoCo and their covert sterilization program in Africa (besides the more organisms and immunity arguments) AND completely ignores that we have enough food to feed the world already, you should look at US hotel dumpsters.
About your medical tech question we have discussed this before and I think it is a class A example of have and have not. patents last normally only around 1O years from product launch so given that tech becomes commonplace (and there are suitable solutions - which i and many pharma compnaies believe) life prolonging tablets should be available and relevant to the current youth and immortality shots well - there you have it - will there ever be, I have no idea but i am sure i will never know of it, these will be kept and used only by those who control.
I think the thing you ignore is the problem of technology and the lack of respect for the millions of years of behaior. We have developed such technology over the last 2OO years but have made (statistically) no moral progress. IS the problem the tech or the people. People cannot be wrong, so the tech is the problem. OK here we are in tech rich lives continualy (being driven) to substitute ways of doing things and posessions to keep up. Musicians are just as guilty and the people here, possibly especially so, as they exploit the latest and hence drive it's development. I always thought the voice was the most powerful musical instrument, but in todays new improved world this is not enough.
Solutions - information is not saving us, communications are being held and legislated and made available only because they offer much more poosibility for monitoring, OK we can share but if we start to do anything we run the risk of being labelled terroists/reactionary etc etc. Maybe we can grow up but i think only through the school of hard knocks and by the looks of it the race wil loose it's biological and cultural diversity (the very things that are worth the fight) during the process. Sad news really. In the end I gotta go with X and say everyone is a robot - otherwise these topics could actually become something that have to care about and of course death to all humans
"...removed from their places of controlling others and studied,..." who, by who and who chooses. Anyway it sounds scary and for someone who has been accused of controlling people - you might be in the firing line
I don't know if you have kids or whether you think you are a good parent P but I see parents going through great sacrafice and pain to have first or subsequent children.
Anyway overpopulation is not the cause - competition is, and competition is built in - evolution. The rest of your scheme sounds like Ford MoCo and their covert sterilization program in Africa (besides the more organisms and immunity arguments) AND completely ignores that we have enough food to feed the world already, you should look at US hotel dumpsters.
About your medical tech question we have discussed this before and I think it is a class A example of have and have not. patents last normally only around 1O years from product launch so given that tech becomes commonplace (and there are suitable solutions - which i and many pharma compnaies believe) life prolonging tablets should be available and relevant to the current youth and immortality shots well - there you have it - will there ever be, I have no idea but i am sure i will never know of it, these will be kept and used only by those who control.
I think the thing you ignore is the problem of technology and the lack of respect for the millions of years of behaior. We have developed such technology over the last 2OO years but have made (statistically) no moral progress. IS the problem the tech or the people. People cannot be wrong, so the tech is the problem. OK here we are in tech rich lives continualy (being driven) to substitute ways of doing things and posessions to keep up. Musicians are just as guilty and the people here, possibly especially so, as they exploit the latest and hence drive it's development. I always thought the voice was the most powerful musical instrument, but in todays new improved world this is not enough.
Solutions - information is not saving us, communications are being held and legislated and made available only because they offer much more poosibility for monitoring, OK we can share but if we start to do anything we run the risk of being labelled terroists/reactionary etc etc. Maybe we can grow up but i think only through the school of hard knocks and by the looks of it the race wil loose it's biological and cultural diversity (the very things that are worth the fight) during the process. Sad news really. In the end I gotta go with X and say everyone is a robot - otherwise these topics could actually become something that have to care about and of course death to all humans
Message 38/53 09-May-03 @ 03:05 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
this is a man's man's man's world... ; |
why not propose a solution that suggests or at least
includes control over your little swimmy guys? i have to
wonder, seeing as they are an equal contribution. not
that the idea of a 1 per 5 year cycle isn't delicious, but it
seems a little...canted.
why not propose a solution that suggests or at least
includes control over your little swimmy guys? i have to
wonder, seeing as they are an equal contribution. not
that the idea of a 1 per 5 year cycle isn't delicious, but it
seems a little...canted.
Message 39/53 09-May-03 @ 06:05 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
Man Pongoid,
I'll just say this, you're solution is (as i read it) to change the conditions of our existence in order to change our perspective... am i right? If so, I would suggest that you're on to something (though I'm extremely hesitant to embrace this fairly extreme notion.) But, these behavoural "problems" you describe take place in even small groups. I'm not convinced that thinning the population, or even threatening it, would change peoples attitudes. Like Cheddar says above, it's evolution... we are in the process of overcoming millions of years of domination cycles and survival of the fittest. And yes, a lot of the attitudes you describe are SELFISH and narrowminded and based in that evolutionary drive to procreate. But I really think that to some extent we are getting better.
People have this narrow vision of our own race (understandable, we are narrow and selfish creatures). We look back 10,000 years and see relatively little change in our developmant as a species... but forget that it took 2,000,000 years to get to that point. Give it time, we are still children... as a people we have a LOT of room to grow.
For me, to suggest that we need an artificial breeding dam in place to circumvent millions of years of evolution just seems a bit reactive! Like shooting a guy for flipping us off. There just seems to be little patience in it.
BTW, P... Why was the quote so familiar? (I didn't put anything in quotes in my last post, not sure what you're referring to)... did I "borrow" there?
e
I'll just say this, you're solution is (as i read it) to change the conditions of our existence in order to change our perspective... am i right? If so, I would suggest that you're on to something (though I'm extremely hesitant to embrace this fairly extreme notion.) But, these behavoural "problems" you describe take place in even small groups. I'm not convinced that thinning the population, or even threatening it, would change peoples attitudes. Like Cheddar says above, it's evolution... we are in the process of overcoming millions of years of domination cycles and survival of the fittest. And yes, a lot of the attitudes you describe are SELFISH and narrowminded and based in that evolutionary drive to procreate. But I really think that to some extent we are getting better.
People have this narrow vision of our own race (understandable, we are narrow and selfish creatures). We look back 10,000 years and see relatively little change in our developmant as a species... but forget that it took 2,000,000 years to get to that point. Give it time, we are still children... as a people we have a LOT of room to grow.
For me, to suggest that we need an artificial breeding dam in place to circumvent millions of years of evolution just seems a bit reactive! Like shooting a guy for flipping us off. There just seems to be little patience in it.
BTW, P... Why was the quote so familiar? (I didn't put anything in quotes in my last post, not sure what you're referring to)... did I "borrow" there?
e
Message 40/53 09-May-03 @ 06:29 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
"does the shaman own wisdom?" i'd say if they are the sole recipient and it's only preservation, then "yes," for all practical purposes... especially if everyone else is an oblivious robot bastard who fucking sucks and makes my live a continuous wash of agonies.
ethical evolution? i'm going to use the term "white man," regardless of skin tone. it's a matter of convenience. there are, and have been.. cultures in this world that nurture an awareness of consideration.. that all animals are kin.. ..some just tell you they don't have souls, instead of different organs.
higher power, i see i have done nothing here... mick, have you read my license?? ^ if it ain't .txt it's .html - thoughts?
"once they are parents, that's what they are." as has been intended, condoned, promoted by clorox, lysol, bounty.. and most probably most of the musicians on this forum.. you like pizza, don't you! it's the only choice! the only choice! you don't want people to think you're a snob! dance to the hip fucking music.
..and goddamn you if you don't aspire to be the same! may you suffer a thousand cuts!
psy - you're not driven by consideration, you're driven by the desire to be considered clever. if conscience wasn't "in mode" here, you wouldn't give a fuck.
ethical evolution? i'm going to use the term "white man," regardless of skin tone. it's a matter of convenience. there are, and have been.. cultures in this world that nurture an awareness of consideration.. that all animals are kin.. ..some just tell you they don't have souls, instead of different organs.
higher power, i see i have done nothing here... mick, have you read my license?? ^ if it ain't .txt it's .html - thoughts?
"once they are parents, that's what they are." as has been intended, condoned, promoted by clorox, lysol, bounty.. and most probably most of the musicians on this forum.. you like pizza, don't you! it's the only choice! the only choice! you don't want people to think you're a snob! dance to the hip fucking music.
..and goddamn you if you don't aspire to be the same! may you suffer a thousand cuts!
psy - you're not driven by consideration, you're driven by the desire to be considered clever. if conscience wasn't "in mode" here, you wouldn't give a fuck.
Message 41/53 09-May-03 @ 06:32 PM Edit: 09-May-03 | 07:46 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
Luci's fuckin spot on thats for sure. jesus. how about men getting their fucking tubes tied and quit bein fuckin ANIMALS whos only goal is to procreate?
what a bunch of fools we are sitting here acting as though we can solve this fucking mess.
personally...the drastic shift required to make things "right" again is 99% out of reach, BUT if we were to make an effort I believe that progress would come from the ground up with humanity, IE people need to be taught better from the very start.
I think overpopulation is DEFINITELY an issue, and the sense of entitlement and the "right" to have children when sadly (I would say) most of the children born end up fucked up emotionally which perpetuates the cycle on every level all the way up to the power elite. Look at the behavior of past leaders. Womanizing, greed, power mongering...really...all just extensions of a poor upbringing that doesnt teach compassion and respect for humans (not that all humans deserve respect at present but if they were raised properly, ethically things could be drastically different, no?
so yeah, less babies. no doubt. maybe for..dunno...two generations...as a group agreement? and then...those that are born...dammit...oh the potential is just AMAZING and the way we squander it is so horribly depressing
what a bunch of fools we are sitting here acting as though we can solve this fucking mess.
personally...the drastic shift required to make things "right" again is 99% out of reach, BUT if we were to make an effort I believe that progress would come from the ground up with humanity, IE people need to be taught better from the very start.
I think overpopulation is DEFINITELY an issue, and the sense of entitlement and the "right" to have children when sadly (I would say) most of the children born end up fucked up emotionally which perpetuates the cycle on every level all the way up to the power elite. Look at the behavior of past leaders. Womanizing, greed, power mongering...really...all just extensions of a poor upbringing that doesnt teach compassion and respect for humans (not that all humans deserve respect at present but if they were raised properly, ethically things could be drastically different, no?
so yeah, less babies. no doubt. maybe for..dunno...two generations...as a group agreement? and then...those that are born...dammit...oh the potential is just AMAZING and the way we squander it is so horribly depressing
Message 42/53 09-May-03 @ 07:35 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
Yeah, overpopulation is a REAL problem. But so is people behaving like sh+theads. I'm not cnvinced that they are completely related.
And there IS enough food to go around. That's what makes the scenario's offered above so depressing. They would probably not really work! And they should not be necessary. I have 3 children, born over the last 12 years. That put's me WAY over the limit under Pongoids plan. And you know what, none of my children are gluttonous, mean or any more selfish than can be helped considering the mess. I suppose this proves Influx's point a bit. And I'd say it makes a bit of a case against Pongoids. Oh, sure, we're americans... which means that by the nature of our geography and the shameful inheritance of our nationality we have the luxury provided on the backs of others. Not to be done about that at this point, really! But to teach human compassion and understanding, and a profound respect for where it came from.
If people could do this all around the world, then humans (for the most part) would be a better lot than they are today!... I'm not perfect, neither are my kids... but we'd all be better if circumstance didn't dictate someof our responses... wouldn't we?
e
And there IS enough food to go around. That's what makes the scenario's offered above so depressing. They would probably not really work! And they should not be necessary. I have 3 children, born over the last 12 years. That put's me WAY over the limit under Pongoids plan. And you know what, none of my children are gluttonous, mean or any more selfish than can be helped considering the mess. I suppose this proves Influx's point a bit. And I'd say it makes a bit of a case against Pongoids. Oh, sure, we're americans... which means that by the nature of our geography and the shameful inheritance of our nationality we have the luxury provided on the backs of others. Not to be done about that at this point, really! But to teach human compassion and understanding, and a profound respect for where it came from.
If people could do this all around the world, then humans (for the most part) would be a better lot than they are today!... I'm not perfect, neither are my kids... but we'd all be better if circumstance didn't dictate someof our responses... wouldn't we?
e
Message 43/53 09-May-03 @ 08:54 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
seems like there's more than a bit of "yes, the problem
exists, most def!" but P.S. "i [and my offspring] are the
exception to the rule". bullsh i t, *i* say. really. these
statements of altruism reek pretense and intensify the *
very exact* problematic way of thinking, exponentially.
duh, everyone's *taught better* from the start! even if
they are, which is way assuming of the parent, eh?
they are then released out into the world and are
untrained, if you will, by their very peers and their peers'
parental training and habits and ways of life and TV,
that ever-fuc k ing acceptable disease...now THAT is a
virus proven very effective...all for the sake of a very
empty kind of acceptance...eh blablabla i could go on
all night and what a terrific audience etc. all i mean is
society is a frigging terrifying JOKE. you don't stand a
chance.
agonies indeed.. didn't even want to touch this part of
the subject. never have anything nice to say which is
why i am usually silent and should have shut up at
'seems like..'. grumblegrmblgrmbl
exists, most def!" but P.S. "i [and my offspring] are the
exception to the rule". bullsh i t, *i* say. really. these
statements of altruism reek pretense and intensify the *
very exact* problematic way of thinking, exponentially.
duh, everyone's *taught better* from the start! even if
they are, which is way assuming of the parent, eh?
they are then released out into the world and are
untrained, if you will, by their very peers and their peers'
parental training and habits and ways of life and TV,
that ever-fuc k ing acceptable disease...now THAT is a
virus proven very effective...all for the sake of a very
empty kind of acceptance...eh blablabla i could go on
all night and what a terrific audience etc. all i mean is
society is a frigging terrifying JOKE. you don't stand a
chance.
agonies indeed.. didn't even want to touch this part of
the subject. never have anything nice to say which is
why i am usually silent and should have shut up at
'seems like..'. grumblegrmblgrmbl
Message 44/53 09-May-03 @ 10:35 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
damn girl, and here i was thinking I had gotten meaner and negative-er
Message 45/53 09-May-03 @ 11:01 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
Yeah I knew it was pretentious when i posted it! Felt like bullsh+t, but what can I say... By personalizing it I'm simply saying that if people were responsible in bringing up their children, there would not be as much of that crap in the first place! Hence the last statement in my last post!
You're right, sort of! You see I agree there's an overpopulation problem under the current system. I do not believe that it's the population that's a problem though, it's the system!
And this fuggin' nihilsitic, self-righteous bullsh+t about how the world sucks and you can't win is why it's the way it is! Because someone has to fuggin' win... meaning someone else looses.
but again, sorry to get personla with the kids thing... I knew better than to go there when I did it!
e
You're right, sort of! You see I agree there's an overpopulation problem under the current system. I do not believe that it's the population that's a problem though, it's the system!
And this fuggin' nihilsitic, self-righteous bullsh+t about how the world sucks and you can't win is why it's the way it is! Because someone has to fuggin' win... meaning someone else looses.
but again, sorry to get personla with the kids thing... I knew better than to go there when I did it!
e
Message 46/53 09-May-03 @ 11:06 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
not intended, and not negative in the slightest.
Message 47/53 09-May-03 @ 11:43 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
gosh its so nice to be able to have conversations with you again
Message 48/53 10-May-03 @ 12:35 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
Has anybody ever heard of the term Vanishing Point? It's a term used to describe the point in time when humanity will create sufficient impact upon the biosphere as to make it no longer sustainable for the bulk majority of organic life as we know it. It means basically the point at which we fuck up the planet's surface and the delicate balance it has to the point where it cannot undo the damage and the ecosystems for the most part just collapse. Every day information is factored into this equation and this point in time is roughly calculated. The rate at which we approach that point is increasing exponentially. The idea of trying to instill sufficient selflessness in humans to persuade them to defy both their most core of instincts, AND what religious/govermental/social edicts tell them is in time to avert this catastrophe is preposterous. In other words, that was a great idea a hundred years ago, maybe even fifty years ago, but the population is just TOO fuckin big, and too many people will want to be exceptions, because they cannot overcome these drives. Simple. It's too fuckin late for people to choose. They had the choice when the sexual revolution happened, and they fucked it up.
Luci, I understand that it's a both a male and female thing, but in all reality something has to be done fast, and to my knowledge, there is no effective male pill. If there was, I'd be on it. The female's reproductive system for the moment is easier to regulate without causing complete permanent sterility. I personally find that to be less of a curse and more of a blessing. For guys, it's pretty much a one way trip.
Influx, you cannot teach MILLIONS of years of evolution out of people. That's why it HAS to be a biological factor. This has NOTHING to do with government. I cannot figure out how the fuck you equate the two together. The only thing that this is about controlling is the population growth rate of THE ENTIRE SPECIES, no discrimination, none, no exception, not no way, not no fucking how!!!! EVERYBODY. Governement implies that there are exceptions and target areas for this to be implemented, and I say no fucking way to that sort of thing. Don't paint me out to be some kind of nazi, cuz I ain't. The time to ask people to agree passed long ago cuz they can't and won't. Too many humans listen to their emotions and put them before logic. In almost every human I've ever encounterred, myself included, we ALL do to some degree. Emotion cannot be bargained with or overcome, so it has to be factored out of the equation by something that has nothing to do with emotion, logic, or choice, but could be simply a fact of life. Sure, it's sounds like control, because it is: DAMAGE CONTROL. Ethics, and education cannot be implemented fast enough planet-wide. And who the fuck are you or I to say what 'raised properly, with ethics" is to somebody who was raised in a different environment, under different conditions, with different teachers, and different experiences to teach them?
Quick group question, and please think about it honestly, even if you don't answer honestly. How many people do you know personally that planned and tried to have every single child they have ever had? How many of those children were unplanned?
Now as far as who decides who goes into study and who does not....I have no idea how to answer that question yet. I'm not enough of any sort of authority on what sanity is supposed to be to judge others in that respect, beyond knowing that there isn't a single human I have EVER encountered that isn't fucked up in at least some way. Population first then readjust the social interactions.
I'm not ignoring technology at all, in fact I'm counting on it. Later on, one would hope that a condition of the immortality pill/shot is sterility. If you're not dying, you don't need to make more of yourself. Why would it be limited to those who control? Why would it have to be? If one was immortal, why would they need to control anything? Now I could see that as an immortal, one might have to serve as an advisor periodically to help mortals who might choose to ignore past lessons and possibly create irreperable destruction within themselves and others, but beyond that... what need has one to control? I would hope that if such a thing is ever arrived at, one of the requirements to recieve this is a strict policy of non-interference, short of armageddon, and even then, simply advice. I dunno. I'm not immortal, and still struggle with the concept myself. It's not unforseeable, but just the responsibilities that would accompany such privelage are something that certainly requires consideration beyond the scope of normal life, as in achieving such status, one transcends nature.
"'Cause channeling the Loa takes a certain amount of dedication, and energy. Our Society does not support such behavior or talent in and of itself... so the artist, the medium, must sell his creations in order to earn a living. Must the Shaman starve in order to be useful? " -I believe I said this word for word, right down to the punctuation quite some time ago, here, not long after having reread Count Zero.
The solution I propose is one that does not involve pain, or killing, or war, or dicrimination, or economy, or any of that. It will simply work to reduce out population VERY quickly and let us still lead healthy, comfortable, 'prosperous', and less excessively fruitful lives. People CAN be wrong and are wrong. By being alive under the current conditions, if you are not growing all of your own food, if you are using money, creating ANY trash, using anything but what exists on your land and in your hunting/growing/gathering territory (enough for you and your family), then yes you are part of the problem, and so are your children. It's a fact of life. It's nothing personal, just a fact. I live in this society at this time, so I'm just as guilty.
In fact, none of this is personal. It's supposed to be as impersonal, impartial, non-violent, as well as solving the problems, one at a time.
So how does this relate to the destruction of the mass media, it's mind control effects, and the destruction of the music industry as it is? Complete restructure and prioritizing with less focus on material gain for selfish purposes, leaving those who create just for the sake of passionate creation with more access to resources due to current abilities of providence and efficiency of manufacture, current knowledge levels, combined with less material consumption, so more to go around for all concerned. Combine this with less need or capacity for greed, due to reduced consumption, and reconsideration of resources, and values, and I think you'll start to see the possiblities here.
Ape
Luci, I understand that it's a both a male and female thing, but in all reality something has to be done fast, and to my knowledge, there is no effective male pill. If there was, I'd be on it. The female's reproductive system for the moment is easier to regulate without causing complete permanent sterility. I personally find that to be less of a curse and more of a blessing. For guys, it's pretty much a one way trip.
Influx, you cannot teach MILLIONS of years of evolution out of people. That's why it HAS to be a biological factor. This has NOTHING to do with government. I cannot figure out how the fuck you equate the two together. The only thing that this is about controlling is the population growth rate of THE ENTIRE SPECIES, no discrimination, none, no exception, not no way, not no fucking how!!!! EVERYBODY. Governement implies that there are exceptions and target areas for this to be implemented, and I say no fucking way to that sort of thing. Don't paint me out to be some kind of nazi, cuz I ain't. The time to ask people to agree passed long ago cuz they can't and won't. Too many humans listen to their emotions and put them before logic. In almost every human I've ever encounterred, myself included, we ALL do to some degree. Emotion cannot be bargained with or overcome, so it has to be factored out of the equation by something that has nothing to do with emotion, logic, or choice, but could be simply a fact of life. Sure, it's sounds like control, because it is: DAMAGE CONTROL. Ethics, and education cannot be implemented fast enough planet-wide. And who the fuck are you or I to say what 'raised properly, with ethics" is to somebody who was raised in a different environment, under different conditions, with different teachers, and different experiences to teach them?
Quick group question, and please think about it honestly, even if you don't answer honestly. How many people do you know personally that planned and tried to have every single child they have ever had? How many of those children were unplanned?
Now as far as who decides who goes into study and who does not....I have no idea how to answer that question yet. I'm not enough of any sort of authority on what sanity is supposed to be to judge others in that respect, beyond knowing that there isn't a single human I have EVER encountered that isn't fucked up in at least some way. Population first then readjust the social interactions.
I'm not ignoring technology at all, in fact I'm counting on it. Later on, one would hope that a condition of the immortality pill/shot is sterility. If you're not dying, you don't need to make more of yourself. Why would it be limited to those who control? Why would it have to be? If one was immortal, why would they need to control anything? Now I could see that as an immortal, one might have to serve as an advisor periodically to help mortals who might choose to ignore past lessons and possibly create irreperable destruction within themselves and others, but beyond that... what need has one to control? I would hope that if such a thing is ever arrived at, one of the requirements to recieve this is a strict policy of non-interference, short of armageddon, and even then, simply advice. I dunno. I'm not immortal, and still struggle with the concept myself. It's not unforseeable, but just the responsibilities that would accompany such privelage are something that certainly requires consideration beyond the scope of normal life, as in achieving such status, one transcends nature.
"'Cause channeling the Loa takes a certain amount of dedication, and energy. Our Society does not support such behavior or talent in and of itself... so the artist, the medium, must sell his creations in order to earn a living. Must the Shaman starve in order to be useful? " -I believe I said this word for word, right down to the punctuation quite some time ago, here, not long after having reread Count Zero.
The solution I propose is one that does not involve pain, or killing, or war, or dicrimination, or economy, or any of that. It will simply work to reduce out population VERY quickly and let us still lead healthy, comfortable, 'prosperous', and less excessively fruitful lives. People CAN be wrong and are wrong. By being alive under the current conditions, if you are not growing all of your own food, if you are using money, creating ANY trash, using anything but what exists on your land and in your hunting/growing/gathering territory (enough for you and your family), then yes you are part of the problem, and so are your children. It's a fact of life. It's nothing personal, just a fact. I live in this society at this time, so I'm just as guilty.
In fact, none of this is personal. It's supposed to be as impersonal, impartial, non-violent, as well as solving the problems, one at a time.
So how does this relate to the destruction of the mass media, it's mind control effects, and the destruction of the music industry as it is? Complete restructure and prioritizing with less focus on material gain for selfish purposes, leaving those who create just for the sake of passionate creation with more access to resources due to current abilities of providence and efficiency of manufacture, current knowledge levels, combined with less material consumption, so more to go around for all concerned. Combine this with less need or capacity for greed, due to reduced consumption, and reconsideration of resources, and values, and I think you'll start to see the possiblities here.
Ape
Message 49/53 10-May-03 @ 12:43 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
Pongoid... that's f+ggin' bizarre man. I would not steal your words.. I'd a quoted them, yo! Whatever you think of me you gotta know that about me by now!
Wierd... if it is indeed so similar. I often agree with your take on sh+t, that's not so strange... but even if the wording is similar, I do not think we are SOOOOO much alike as that!
any idea what the thread was called? I'd like to see it!
e
Wierd... if it is indeed so similar. I often agree with your take on sh+t, that's not so strange... but even if the wording is similar, I do not think we are SOOOOO much alike as that!
any idea what the thread was called? I'd like to see it!
e
Message 50/53 10-May-03 @ 12:52 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
Hmmmm... decent argument, BTW... I've nothing to say that doesn't support it.
It's just that I'm not convinced that shrinking the population will change attitudes one Iota!
It would, however minimize our IMPACT on the planet and each other, so it's not all bad, is it?
I may be with you on that point. And, if there were a concerted effort to insure that children were raised with certain values from there... yeah! But that brings us back to your VERY GOOD point that you and I (or anyone else) are not qualified to decide what those ways are. So...
e
It's just that I'm not convinced that shrinking the population will change attitudes one Iota!
It would, however minimize our IMPACT on the planet and each other, so it's not all bad, is it?
I may be with you on that point. And, if there were a concerted effort to insure that children were raised with certain values from there... yeah! But that brings us back to your VERY GOOD point that you and I (or anyone else) are not qualified to decide what those ways are. So...
e
Message 51/53 10-May-03 @ 01:35 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
Its been said before but the earth acts as one system and we will be dealt with because mother earth's immune system is stronger than any virus. The thing to do is to try and enjoy our time here and not be overly concerned with things done in the past that we cannot change or stay the course of. Our great- grandparent's and grandparent's generation started us on a course that will run to it's inevitable conclusion. Perhaps, had our parents done things different they could have stopped the tide but what's done is done. There is still a lot of beauty in the world to appreciate. So much that the time here is too brief to experience it all so you must find it and stay focused on it or next thing you know you'll be old and realize you spent your life purposely turning away from it. How sad is that? I'm certainly been guilty of it at times but I realize that, like depression, its a dangerous place to stay for too long. Seriously, so much time will pass that you will forget what it was like to be anywhere else. Better that happen in a happy place, eh?
Message 52/53 10-May-03 @ 03:15 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
It might have been said, but it didn't take our technology and the ability to usurp nature, at times. I have no problem with happiness, but while this world is as fucked up as it is, and continues to get worse, am I supposed to be happy? It is not too late yet as far as I know, but the time is fast approaching.
E, I went looking for the Loa in a search, and came up with over 11,000 entries, so I'm afraid finding it is going to be a little difficult, but I SWEAR to you I've said the EXACT same thing in relation to this same topic, i.e. the lack of support for musicians and their exploitation. I don't recall what my proposed solution was, but there's GOT to be somebody else here who has seen it, and might have an idea of where to look.
On a side note, while searching, I saw this thread on anti-religious S.O.B.'s and WHHEEEWW!!!! what a funny one that was, OMG. PWWWAAHAHHAHAAHAHAA!!!!!!!
Ape
E, I went looking for the Loa in a search, and came up with over 11,000 entries, so I'm afraid finding it is going to be a little difficult, but I SWEAR to you I've said the EXACT same thing in relation to this same topic, i.e. the lack of support for musicians and their exploitation. I don't recall what my proposed solution was, but there's GOT to be somebody else here who has seen it, and might have an idea of where to look.
On a side note, while searching, I saw this thread on anti-religious S.O.B.'s and WHHEEEWW!!!! what a funny one that was, OMG. PWWWAAHAHHAHAAHAHAA!!!!!!!
Ape
Message 53/53 10-May-03 @ 05:09 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
I did the same search, and got the sa,e nimber... it must search for words containing that letter combo... can't be that much VooDoo going on around here...
But I swear to god, I didn't mack on you. Unless I did! But I sure as hell didn't mean to!
e
But I swear to god, I didn't mack on you. Unless I did! But I sure as hell didn't mean to!
e
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