Forums - Samplers & sampling
Subject: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
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Original Message 1/39 12-Jan-04 @ 04:17 PM - Why are there no single-hit CDs?
So, does anybody have any suggestions for real drums? I need rock kits, I'm totally covered on electronic drums. No loops, but I guess they'd be OK if they came on the CDs with the regular kits I prefer Akai format, but also Emu will work, or I could deal with .wav and build my own program I guess, but I'd prefer Akai or Emu.
I'm also looking for a CD of pads and orchestral instruments. The key with the orchestral instruments is that I don't want to spend a ton of money on a big orchestra set, but I also don't want the samples to sound like doo doo either.
Any suggestions?!?
-Craig
Message 2/39 12-Jan-04 @ 06:32 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 3/39 12-Jan-04 @ 07:32 PM Edit: 12-Jan-04 | 07:36 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
I'll look into it.
-Craig
Message 4/39 13-Jan-04 @ 05:09 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
why not put bfd on a laptop? i know you're a hardware guy but it doesn't seem to need a lot of power and if the laptop juust runs bfd hooked up to your sequencer and drum triggers, i'm sure it'd be fine.. you won't even need to look at the screen that much since it looks like you can just assign each hit to a midi note anyway. also, you could always sequence the drums first and then make programs out of them.
looks like 9 gigs of samples too! (9 gigs of space required)
-j
ps: man, bfd looks sweet!
Message 5/39 13-Jan-04 @ 06:17 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
I ordered "Drumkit from Hell" yesterday, so we'll see how that goes.
-Craig
Message 6/39 13-Jan-04 @ 06:47 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
tell me how those drum samples are cause i'm also on the lockout for real/acoustic drums.
-j
Message 7/39 13-Jan-04 @ 07:56 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
I used it on my latest "philly ambient 2" track if you want a DT demo
Message 8/39 13-Jan-04 @ 08:04 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
-Craig
Message 9/39 13-Jan-04 @ 08:44 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
Message 10/39 13-Jan-04 @ 09:27 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
Message 11/39 13-Jan-04 @ 11:32 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
Message 12/39 14-Jan-04 @ 02:05 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
There was another called "mega giga drums" or something like that. The demos sounded OK, maybe I'll pick it up later on down the line. This Cd plus what I've already got should get me through my current stuff.
-Craig
Message 13/39 15-Jan-04 @ 05:34 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
Message 14/39 15-Jan-04 @ 06:44 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
And do not trust computers on stage. Probably never will.
-Craig
PS - I dare you to measure 15-20ms timing slop in my MIDI rig.
Message 15/39 15-Jan-04 @ 09:37 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
Craig, from your total distrust of computers I'm guessing you and me are in a similar line of work. I remember you mentioning you had a computer science degree but I could be wrong. So what do ya do Net Admin ? Tech support ?
I'm in tech support myself, my official title is Corporate IT Support specialist, but that makes sound alot cooler than it really is
I do all the tech support for the corporate headquarters of a medium sized company (600 employees worldwide about 150 here) So I spend my work days fixing computers.
I agree I would NEVER trust a computer live on stage at least not with a setup I could afford. besides the risk of the computer crashing on you there are about a hundred other things that could go wrong (has your computer ever locked up on you in the middle of playing a cd or a track from your DAW remember that horrible noise imagine that pumping through a club system) and you risk your laptop getting stolen/stepped on or filled with beer
Message 16/39 15-Jan-04 @ 10:11 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
Maybe if you daisy-chain all the equipment you'll notice a (huuuuge) delay.
Btw, if everything in a track is midi (h/w) - every sound in the track will have the same timing issue, 15-20 ms or whatever digital dave said. So whats the deal if the instruments are synced to each other..
And a sampler is rock solid for live performance. I read someone found unbelievable things (like beer, cigarettes etc.) inside his Akai's when being on tour. And the machines were working as usual.
Message 17/39 16-Jan-04 @ 07:28 AM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
I know that I cannot play live MIDI drums with more than 10-12 ms delay, which I have only experienced through software (on an older card with bad drivers). I know for a fact that my hardware timing has always been better than even my best software performance (which is 1.5 ms)
Message 18/39 16-Jan-04 @ 07:34 AM Edit: 16-Jan-04 | 07:35 AM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
http://www.audiomidi.com/classroom/midi/midi_latency.cfm
"There has been much confusion regarding MIDI latency and it all can be traced back to a misprint about MIDI timing in an old article of Keyboard Magazine.
With all electronic instruments there is a measurable degree of latency, a delay between when you tell the instrument to do something and when it actually does it. That measurement, however, is incredibly small. While Audio latency is measured in term of Milliseconds, MIDI latency is usually measured in terms of nanoseconds.
Now that's not to say that there can not be any delay in using a MIDI setup. Some synthesizers are inherently slower than others in producing sound. Some synthesizers patches are designed with a slow attack, as well."
15-20 ns is more like it.
Message 19/39 16-Jan-04 @ 02:09 PM Edit: 16-Jan-04 | 02:16 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
Yonce - I do hold a computer science degree. I am a Senior Programmer/Analyst for University Business Services at the State Univeristy of New York at Buffalo. That was a mouthful, wasn't it? I develop applications for human resources, financials, and procurement. Cold Fusion against Oracle with a little Flash, and legacy apps in Microsoft Visual Foxpro. The university has about 28,000 faculty, staff, and students. Directly I probably work with about 300 people or so, but I do produce applications for the university community at large. All 28,000 of 'em.
All the information you could ever want about my job
My background definately influences my decisions on whether or not to trust PCs and what to trust them with. On one hand, we know that computers go down (usually with catastrophic consequences and at the worst time). On the other hand they're sometimes the best tool for the job - ie recording and mixing.
The other way to look at it is that when you're builiding a large-scale system, you use dedicated pieces designed for specific functions to get the maximum performance from your system.
Either way, I still think PCs lose to hardware, at least in terms stability and latency and user interface. Software is more flexible and sounds just as good.
-Craig
Message 20/39 19-Jan-04 @ 12:39 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
Just my opinion.
Message 21/39 20-Jan-04 @ 02:33 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
Message 22/39 20-Jan-04 @ 06:37 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
Message 23/39 27-Jan-04 @ 02:49 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
My major complaints are the fact that these kits basically eat your entire sampler. They use almost all the available memory and your entire effects board. This is cool in the studio, but what happens when I want to take those great drum sounds on the road? Well, I'm going to have a few hours of programming ahead of me so I can open up enough room for the rest of my set It'd be great if they'd provide 128MB versions of their kits like Akai does with their sampled pianos. Maybe after I've programmed them I'll share so they can be included on the CD or provided as a free download.
As a studio tool though, these drums are awesome. I was able to create a patch on my DTX to control the kit on the sampler quite easily (thanks to a nifty little keymap diagram that was included in the CD sleeve). Having access to a kit this realistic has transformed the usually cheesy-sounding DTX into a really nice sounding kit. I'll be having a real drummer around at some point soon who can give a better impression on the feel but the sound is really great and the velocity switching is incredibly smooth and realistic.
At around $120 US, the CD is a bit pricey for what amounts to one drumkit. But, these are probably the best sounding rock drums you're going to get out of a sampler. Highly recommended if you need one high quality, versatile drum kit.
-Craig
Message 25/39 27-Jan-04 @ 06:33 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
Some threads just seem to fade away into oblivion though many unanswered questions remains (i've followed many old and archived DT-topics with this problem).
The information Craig shared about 'Drumkit from Hell' is very useful especially for a hardware user like me. tho maybe i can forget to use it on my s3kXL (32 mb RAM) ;-)
Message 26/39 27-Jan-04 @ 06:47 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
K could use this as a review. I can add some additional thoughts when I have the time.
One really cool thing I think Psy metioned before is that for each multi you get three versions of the samples - one close miked, one close miked gated, and one room mike. So you can mix your ambiences to suit your needs. Really great stuff for studio.
-Craig
Message 27/39 28-Jan-04 @ 03:22 AM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
I love how they map out the kit.... I actually play my drum parts, fills and all, pretty much live on the keys. Something I've picked up from waiting for downloads all my life, I guess, but I can hold my own on a keyboard kit. The left/right hand mappings are perfect for people like me... and the velocity on the snare really is top notch.
It's a shame they don't give you a smaller versions in the akai version... that's kinda silly. I mean, some of those single hits ring out for 10+ seconds... that's unnecessary.
Message 28/39 28-Jan-04 @ 04:36 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
Of course all this is academic. The delays are so unpredictable that you cannot hope to work out how to fix it so it all comes down to “use your ears”. If you think it sounds wrong then fiddle with things until it sounds right. But I suppose it helps to know why it may sound wrong.
Deano
Message 29/39 28-Jan-04 @ 04:42 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
Message 30/39 28-Jan-04 @ 05:52 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
-Craig
Message 31/39 28-Jan-04 @ 11:25 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
Message 32/39 29-Jan-04 @ 12:09 AM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
-j
Message 33/39 29-Jan-04 @ 12:33 AM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
i guess i forgot my midi 1.01 with time... *sigh*
Message 34/39 29-Jan-04 @ 02:27 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
At http://www.ibiblio.org/emusic-l/info-docs-FAQs/MIDI-doc/MIDI-Primer.txt there's an example of the trailing edges of a the first and last notes of a six-note chord being 3.2ms apart - meaning effective latency for a pair of notes under 1ms.
Regardless, it's academic. My setup is tight enough for me, and many other pro and not so pro musicians agree with me. If it was so entirely unusable the people who make synths would've adopted something else by now.
Message 35/39 29-Jan-04 @ 04:45 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
Message 36/39 30-Jan-04 @ 01:34 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
Message 37/39 30-Jan-04 @ 02:18 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
Message 38/39 30-Jan-04 @ 06:50 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
Anyways, I've been realizing a lot that people get way too caught up in the numbers these days. Just make music, eh?
-Craig
Message 39/39 30-Jan-04 @ 11:40 PM - RE: Why are there no single-hit CDs?
At home I use the MTPAV too, and with Logic it does time quite nicely.
Ape
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