Forums - Mixing & FX
Subject: the final stage
Viewing all 60 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Original Message 1/60 11-Oct-04 @ 10:21 AM - the final stage
Message 3/60 12-Oct-04 @ 05:37 AM - RE: the final stage
Message 4/60 12-Oct-04 @ 03:07 PM - RE: the final stage
Message 5/60 12-Oct-04 @ 04:08 PM - RE: the final stage
Message 6/60 12-Oct-04 @ 04:19 PM - RE: the final stage
Message 7/60 12-Oct-04 @ 04:43 PM Edit: 12-Oct-04 | 04:45 PM - RE: the final stage
[edit]
but... if your mixes are in 24bit, then you could theoreticaly send them a wav file in 24bit and leave the conversion to them, since they would (theoreticaly) have better tools to deal with it.
Message 8/60 12-Oct-04 @ 05:46 PM - RE: the final stage
Message 9/60 12-Oct-04 @ 06:47 PM - RE: the final stage
Message 10/60 12-Oct-04 @ 09:11 PM - RE: the final stage
you can get the 'oem' version quit affordably without a box at pc fairs
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 11/60 12-Oct-04 @ 09:40 PM - RE: the final stage
Message 12/60 12-Oct-04 @ 09:43 PM Edit: 12-Oct-04 | 09:45 PM - RE: the final stage
If you're working all in the computer (with virtual synths and such), most DAWs use a 32-bit floating engine. If you're bouncing down "inside the box" you want to retain as much of that dynamic resolution as possible, so bounce to 24-bit at whatever sample rate your project is. That will yield better results than going out analog or digital to a 16-bit CD burner.
Message 13/60 13-Oct-04 @ 12:38 PM - RE: the final stage
1. DATs are dead.
2. 16 bits are dead but I should record at 16 bits on a standalone CDR burner if I want to be able to send a CDR to my DJ mate for him to play out in a club before I send anything of to be mastered.
3. One should not record a CDR at 24 bits because not everyone would be able to play it on the club CD player/deck.
4. But I should record my master at 24 bit for the mastering house.
5. A pioneer 106 will be an excellent choice for me to record my final mixes too (straight out of the main mix of my mackie desk) for both 16 bit and 24 bit.
6. I should make my drum VST load drum samples at "32bit on load" and I should bounce down my soft synths to 24 bit WAV's.
Thanks guys. Its taken me 4 years of blood,sweat and tears to get a track to the stage when I'm finally ready to record it and send it off to the labels.
Message 14/60 13-Oct-04 @ 12:42 PM - RE: the final stage
Message 15/60 13-Oct-04 @ 01:40 PM Edit: 13-Oct-04 | 01:42 PM - RE: the final stage
Audio cd for 16bit-
data cd for 24 bit-
id still record the master at 24bit, but make a 16 bit audio cd off that version, ( using a dither plug if i was feeling saucy)
Message 16/60 13-Oct-04 @ 03:12 PM - RE: the final stage
Psy - will a masterlink convert a 24 bit recording to a 16 bit CDR internally?
And how do you rate the A/D convertors? Turnkey are selling the masterlink for £519 and I'm wondering if I should go for this as the last link in my chain or something else.
Message 17/60 14-Oct-04 @ 06:44 AM - RE: the final stage
This is a rather complicated issue, but some simple searches on Google will bring up all sorts of methods for getting your master at whatever resolution/format you need. I would advise reading up on it some more before diving into a purchase on a mixdown deck.
Message 18/60 14-Oct-04 @ 09:51 AM - RE: the final stage
Message 19/60 14-Oct-04 @ 04:56 PM - RE: the final stage
If you don't mind telling us, what is your entire mastering chain. Knowing that, I could advise you better.
Message 21/60 14-Oct-04 @ 08:08 PM - RE: the final stage
BUT...if you DO choose to get an outboard recorder, the masterlink is a damn fine option
record to disk at 24bit, then burn a red book CD (standard audio, should play anywhere) AND burn a 24bit master backup (a copy of which can be sent to master) AND still have a copy on your HD (the masterlink will take up to a 40g drive, but only utilizes 32). You can do playlists with it, etc. Its a solid unit no doubt
but...your statements bring up another question...if youre doing all this gnarly compression, including a multiband on the main buss...well...the mastering thing is gonna be a waste of money possibly, as odds are youve already squashed the shit so bad no one can do anything with it.
If youre gonna send something off to a real premaster engineer, ya otta lay off the main buss comp unless youre only hittin it just a little
Message 22/60 14-Oct-04 @ 11:51 PM - RE: the final stage
yeah dom, we were discussing this in another thread innit? Always good advice from ^^^ these guys, they know whats going on
Message 23/60 15-Oct-04 @ 09:24 AM - RE: the final stage
Message 24/60 15-Oct-04 @ 10:05 AM - RE: the final stage
Message 25/60 15-Oct-04 @ 11:50 AM - RE: the final stage
Thanks for all the advise guys -its really helping.
Message 26/60 16-Oct-04 @ 04:51 AM Edit: 16-Oct-04 | 07:21 AM - RE: the final stage
Then you're using it for exactly the right reason in a mix context...as long as it's for a "sound." Just be wary that it doesn't sound better to you just because it's louder. A difference of much less than 1 dB can make something sound much better, no matter how much you think you're compensating with your head. Often times when i'm mastering, I'll stick something on that initially sounds great... bass is enhanced and everything is clearer. Then I run an analog-domain, level-matched A/B switch between the original and the mastering chain. When you match apparent levels (not peak) and compare apples to apples, you see thast compressors can often really diminish your low end, high end... pretty much any end if used improperly. But the end result of improper use is, yes, it may be louder, but it doesn't really sound as good. There are ways to get average level up without percievable dynamic distortion or changes in the frequency spectrum.
Not to harp on you, it's just something I've found out lately myself that's really helped my consistency in the studio. Nothing is more depressing than doing all this work getting a track's level up... and all along yer thinking it sounds great. Then you compare it to the unmastered version with a little turn of the volume knob in between, and you realize that you killed it. Always give a proper A/B. Find a way to make it easy.... i got it down to a keystroke in PT
And that's basically the "holy grail" of mastering. Not fucking up what the mix engineer did. It's not easy, given the levels clients are expecting their masters to be at nowadays. At the end of the day, given good mixes (which i'm usually given from my boss... he's good), my job is simply to get them louder and to match them in level and spectrum. But more importantly my job is to fuck them up as little as possible.
But yeah, use that compressor if it truly makes it sound better.
Message 27/60 18-Oct-04 @ 09:51 PM - RE: the final stage
Ape
Message 28/60 18-Oct-04 @ 11:02 PM - RE: the final stage
a 24bit data CD is gonna be the most likely candidate for universal medium right now wouldnt you agree?
also...if one has a decently spec'd PC, then one can simply record 2track back into it. No need for an external recorder?
Message 29/60 19-Oct-04 @ 05:09 AM - RE: the final stage
Ape
Message 30/60 19-Oct-04 @ 07:15 AM - RE: the final stage
the field recording thing is the most relative argument, for sure...there arent portable CD recorders yet, are there?
but there are portable DATS, portable HD recorders (quite expensive still)
anyway...I wasnt dismissing things that werent as technologically advanced as inferior. I dont think anyone was, actually!
Message 31/60 19-Oct-04 @ 07:54 AM - RE: the final stage
But it will live on. people cut to VHS still. hehe, i said "cut"
Message 32/60 19-Oct-04 @ 04:03 PM - RE: the final stage
1. Master in 24 bit
2. Record through decent a/d converters
3. Use a medium that I can send out straight to DJ's
4. Use a bit of kit that can take the same sorts of levels as my DAT machine.
When I try and record straight into one of my delta 410's, I have to have the master fader right down by -25 db to not overload the PC. I've tried using the -10db and the +4 db inputs on my mixmaster but this makes no difference to the input levels. As previously said I get a mush better signal when I use the +4db XLR inputs on my mixmaster compared to the -10db inputs (which I believe to be for consumer gear like keyboards or dat machines) and know that my main metres levels are good cos the input knob on the DAT machine is in the same place it used to be when I used to record from a neve vr legend (with flying faders - heheheheh) in a pro studio. So I'm thinking that the alesis masterlink will be able to handle the "proper" signal from the mackie desk and I won't have to pull my master fader (that is post main sub inserts if anyone's wondering) all the way down to -25 db. I can't find an "input level" option in the audio menus of Logic and the control panels of my 410 deltas only deal with outputs, ie -10db consumer or full. I'm kinda thinking that my gain structure is cool cos of the same DAT machine being in the pro studio and the input knob is exactly in the same place for a decent level that peaks at 0db. Phew!
Am I missing something vital here fellas?
Message 33/60 19-Oct-04 @ 07:45 PM - RE: the final stage
0dBfs is theoretically the same across the board. I think there are fluctuations, but not 25dB.
so...if you can sort it out, its gonna be more economical to use your PC. Where are you? Im thinkin england, in which case I cant help you.
I do, however, wonder if it has to do with what youre strapping across the main buss. maybe youre simply cranking that too high, and the outputs of your mackie are actually distorting? Im sure youre watching the meters on the mackie?
anyway...the masterlink is a damn fine piece of equipment. Dont know if the converters are anything but better than average. The only experience I have with one was using an Apogee PSX100 and then digital out from that, so...
Message 34/60 19-Oct-04 @ 09:36 PM - RE: the final stage
look... a Neve VR will have output of about +26dbU or something, so no wonder you have to pull the fader to -25db while recording to a lowly Midiman Delta card. can that be it??
Message 35/60 20-Oct-04 @ 12:26 AM - RE: the final stage
and...whats a Neve got to do with it
Message 36/60 20-Oct-04 @ 04:49 AM - RE: the final stage
A 24-bit CD burner (like the masterlink) burns data disks that can only be read by another masterlink or a computer. An audio CD is always 16bit/44.1khz. Also 24-bit recording does not indicate a higher input level capacity. This may be obvious, but from the way you were goin there I thought I'd make that clear.
I am of the opinion that if your productions originate and are mixed in a computer, they should be mastered there for highest fidelity. Your analog stage sounds a bit unnecessary to me.
Message 37/60 20-Oct-04 @ 10:34 AM - RE: the final stage
The kick and bass
They each go through a compunder via the channel insert via jack to jack plummed into the +4db inputs.
The snare and the rest of the drums
They get eq'ed and sent to a sub group which in turn goes through a compunder at +4db inputs.
Soft synths
These get compressed with Logics native compressors and then all sent, via another sub group, to a compunder with +4db inputs.
The whole mix
The whole mix gets 3db of compression and eq'ed at 120hz, 5-7khz and 12khz around +3db on the eq section through a mixmaster using the main sub inserts and the +4db inputs.
Plus the makie manual says that there is +25 db output aswell so I'm confused. My question is why does my DAT machine accept a nice hot input level but my delta 410 doesn't. The mackie manual says that there is loads of headroom on this desk and to make sure that the main metres only flick into the yellow occasionally (which I am making sure of). What the hell am I doing wrong here?
Surely I can't be mixing with my channel faders all at -10. Everything is set at unity gain on my mackie including the channels, the gain pots are completely anti clockwise and the master fader is at 0db. Where am I going wrong here?
Message 38/60 20-Oct-04 @ 07:45 PM - RE: the final stage
honestly, to me..it sounds like youre overcompressing shit, but that might not be the source of this problem...
I cant for the life of me figure out what exactly that problem is though. If youre doing the levels in the PC, and leaving the gain on the mixer with no boost, and the channels at unity...
jeez. confusing
Message 39/60 21-Oct-04 @ 03:43 PM - RE: the final stage
Message 40/60 21-Oct-04 @ 05:47 PM - RE: the final stage
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 41/60 21-Oct-04 @ 06:53 PM - RE: the final stage
If youre doing all the settings on the mixer, why in the world would you leave everything at unity?
Id think you would have to be pulling some faders down, including the main buss
I honestly think youre just overcomplicating all this...too much compression (gain boost most likely) and then just goin in too hot
altho 25dB is a lot!
Message 42/60 21-Oct-04 @ 08:18 PM - RE: the final stage
there's not a clear explanation here, the discussion hops around between points but never paints the whole picture
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 43/60 22-Oct-04 @ 03:30 PM - RE: the final stage
Message 44/60 22-Oct-04 @ 04:02 PM - RE: the final stage
Message 45/60 22-Oct-04 @ 04:21 PM - RE: the final stage
Just been reading the Mackie manual (again) and they talk about the difference between using unbalanced and balanced outputs!!!! I was using the jack main mix outputs to feed the 410. So, you're saying for me to use the tape outs (which actually have a +4db/-10db switch) to feed the mix back into the 410? I think you might be right bruv.!!!! Will report back Monday. Thank you.
Message 46/60 22-Oct-04 @ 04:23 PM - RE: the final stage
hope it works out for ya
Message 47/60 22-Oct-04 @ 05:37 PM - RE: the final stage
and on which were we all shouting GAIN MISMATCH untill blue in the face???
Message 49/60 26-Oct-04 @ 05:20 PM - RE: the final stage
However:-
I'm selling my whole studio and buying a laptop with FL studio as the host and reason 2.5 as the client. Plus T-Racks. Why the hell did I pursue this bloody hardware route for sooo long! Probably because I'm stubborn.
Dominic - "there is no way that Reason sounds good. It sounds like shit. It sounds like a toy!"
16 year old garage producer - "have you heard Reason after its been through T-Rack and through a decent soundcard though?"
Dominic - "no"
16 year old garage producer - "here you go. This is something I did in 2 days in Reason"
Dominic - "wow. That's pretty good bruv, did you get it mastered"
16 year old garage producer - "nah. Just bunged it through T-Racks. And used a preset"
Dominic - (cough) "I'm sold"
Oh well, I'm only 3 years late then!!!!!
Message 50/60 26-Oct-04 @ 05:40 PM - RE: the final stage
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 51/60 26-Oct-04 @ 05:43 PM - RE: the final stage
just be careful your bassend isnt overdone prior to import.
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 52/60 26-Oct-04 @ 09:52 PM - RE: the final stage
something to consider before you sell all your hardware. it definitely sounds better in most situations, but...its a different environment and might not be conducive for you personally.
also...I dunno if Id recommend just reason and FL really...but try it out and see!
Message 53/60 27-Oct-04 @ 02:13 AM - RE: the final stage
maybe the young guy had TALENT no?
Ive heard jaw dropping shit from both completely hardware , AND completely Softaware driven tracks, and everything inbetween, combinations, the lot.
A preset in T-racks aint gonna turn shit into gold m8
Ive heard tracks straight off the reason sequencer before that have made me almost faint - but cos the guys had talent, not cos reason is so good!
Seriously, step back and have a quick assesment here m8 - if you cant make shit bang before the mastering stage, forget about T-racks, youll do more harm than good - dead serious
blu
Message 54/60 27-Oct-04 @ 10:07 AM - RE: the final stage
Of course I know its about talent! That's glaringly obvious. Hell, Dizzee Rascal made a mercury prize winning album on a cheap PC and a sampler. Its not the tools, its the workman. Yer, this is all very obvious to me.
I just want to put everything into a laptop because its easier. Hell, talent wise I'm a strong 6 out of 10. I'm never going to make a living out of making music but I just love doing it. It beats sitting in front of the tele every night. Plus I don't really get to be creative in my day job so…….
And……
I fancy a bit of a change. I think I've become stuck in a rut a bit and fancy a new environment to work in. Oh yea, plus I'm moving into a smaller flat and I fancy everything on my laptop through a nice pair of Genelec monitors. Not sure if I'm going to be able to afford a flat big enough to house all my hardware.
Message 55/60 27-Oct-04 @ 10:53 AM - RE: the final stage
Hell, Dizzee Rascal made a mercury prize winning album on a cheap PC and a sampler
like THAT means anything - lol -
only joking - it's the video I like - brilliant because it is SO BRITISH... 100% British vibe rather than all that Yank copying crap.
Dom man - "I'm never going to make a living out of making music but I just love doing it."
be positive man, you never know
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 56/60 27-Oct-04 @ 02:47 PM - RE: the final stage
besides, at some point you'll regret selling your synths
Message 58/60 27-Oct-04 @ 07:18 PM - RE: the final stage
*scratches head*
Message 59/60 28-Oct-04 @ 09:22 AM - RE: the final stage
Message 60/60 29-Oct-04 @ 05:20 PM - RE: the final stage
Viewing all 60 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3 4 5 6
There are 60 total messages for this topic
Reply to Thread
You need to register/login to use the forum.
Click here to Signup or Login !
[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]
Back to Forum