Forums - Mixing & FX
Subject: anyone got good eq ears?
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Original Message 1/35 13-Apr-05 @ 11:30 AM - anyone got good eq ears?
after spending inordinate amounts of time trying to balance my mixes ive come to the conclusion i have a mointoring problem, i have very little room to move things about (although im moving house so that will change)- what im finding is that im mixing and balancing stuff, getting a good approximation but when i try the tune out on say my headphones it sounds unbalanced.....badly...was wondering if anyone with particularly good eq ears could tell me what they think is wrong with say a couple of short examples, that way when i go about setting my new space up i can make sure im not doing anything that would just compound the issue
any takers?
greg
Message 2/35 13-Apr-05 @ 01:24 PM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/dubmunkeymusic.htm
and will upload more examples this week...when i play my stuff back to back i notice the difference in sound to normal mixes so am think some monitoring issue is causing thing to be mixed unbalanced...
greg
Message 3/35 13-Apr-05 @ 03:05 PM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
what are your monitors? do you mix loud or quiet? how are they lacking in your oppinion? give us more details please
Message 4/35 13-Apr-05 @ 03:30 PM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
alaesis montior 1s mk2...
one is on the side of my kitchenette (i live in a v small bedsit) and the right side is on my computer desk- so there is room under and around the right side but not the left-, very little space from the back of the speakers to the thick walls behind them....
i generally monitor at listening level and then go up and down to make sure nothing gets too load or quiet at those volumes....i try and match my kick levels to other house tracks and build around that- means the kick often peaks at 0db (i use 0db as the ref and will often turn the master down when recording so it doesn't clip) and the rest is in relation to the kick...
what i feel im lacking is high-mid detail....it often sounds quite harsh so i reduce or eq or compress but then find im loosing definition....i try and isolate any sound i feel is causing offence and its usually always in the high-mid range...i always feel the bass is not defined enough deep but doesn't hold up on smaller speakers/andor the bass drum suffers- and as ive said im not convinced my high-mids are represented properly-
i use soley hardware btw and record via a mia-midi into soundforge as a 24-bit wav- high pass the rumble out and then converted to mp3...
i have consumed an inordinate amount of info on eqing, compression, balancing, monitoring etc yet my stuff still doesn't hold up to pc based tunes which always have a very well defined top end yet nice and balanced bass....its bad cos im trying to get some tunes out there but always feel let down by my cheap sounding mixes....
greg
kit:
alesis m1 mk2
mpc2kxl
art tube eq
dbx 266xl comp
spirit fx8 mixer
lxp1
vf1
various synths
Message 5/35 13-Apr-05 @ 04:26 PM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 6/35 13-Apr-05 @ 05:29 PM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
"i always feel the bass is not defined enough deep but doesn't hold up on smaller speakers/andor the bass drum suffers"- well, that too would benefit from a better eq- with few bands of parametric you could boost the bit which you need without making it boomy or rumbling, plus you could cut out the bits that mess with the bassdrum. plus you could add elswhere to improve 'presence' for listening on small speakers etc etc...
any particular reason why you dont wanna use a pc for mixing?
Message 7/35 14-Apr-05 @ 04:51 AM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
You're also basing your mixes around the "kick level" of fully mastered CD's, which is setting unrealistic standards for yourself. Try bringing the CD in on some faders where you can attenuate it (at least 6 dB, possibly even 10 or more knowing how shit gets mastered these days) before you try to match it. Even that won't be a truly fair comparison. There's a lot you need to read up on RMS vs. peak levels and the mastering process in general. When you reference commercial CD's while mixing, try to match overall balance and tone rather than level. That's for mastering.
Doing what you've been doing, I bet you're overloading your mixer all to heck trying to compete. How hot are your channels/mix bus levels on an average mix?
Message 8/35 14-Apr-05 @ 09:00 AM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
i thought that may be the problem- im gonna stop trying to a/b to cd's as as you say its not a fair comparison....
i don't have a powerful enough pc to record onto or anything other than sound forge and some plugs to use which isn't mulitrackable...i dont mind using the pc as a posh tape recorder but ive never multitracked on a pc and worry about sync issues when trying to put all the tracks back together....
what im more up for is recording any locked loops and then replaying them outta my mpc but obviously i cant eq them
i guess my main issue is that loads of classic tunes have been recorded with just samplers, synths and stuff outside from a pc and sound great- i know hardware is going outta fashion in todays sound but i much prefer using it and really just wanna be able t0o record my comps as one at the end...
the ONLY way ive been able to balance stuff is through multiband comp and that to me is not the way to go as im not looking to master it and using mulitband often locks tones down irreversably...
i had a little more luck with the bass last night splitting it into two channels- one for low low and one for lowmid- got better.....
thanks for the advice i think im gonna try a couple of different things (ie mix with bd down by 1db etc), record the results and play accross as many systems as i can find to try and reach a balance
ta
greg
Message 9/35 14-Apr-05 @ 09:05 AM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
greg
Message 10/35 14-Apr-05 @ 05:39 PM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
yeah, but they possibly had a better mixer, and possibly they were eq-ing stuff before bouncing it back to the sampler... lotsa old mixers with two swept bands to be had for not too much money btw (soundtrax, soundcraft, mackie maybe, a&h(?))
"thanks for the advice i think im gonna try a couple of different things (ie mix with bd down by 1db etc), record the results and play accross as many systems as i can find to try and reach a balance"
but your balance is not bad i think, its more about the detail etc like we said.
"also what would you consider the best stereo para is for say under £300??? ive used behringer before i didnt really like them"
yeah, they're kinda useless . dunno... maybe a used joey meek, focusrite, tl-audio, tc electronics or something along those lines?
or if you decided to get a multitracker and track to pc, you could always slave the MPC to it via MTC so sync wouldnt really be an issue any more.
or if you're hardcore, you could get a better analogue mixer?
Message 11/35 15-Apr-05 @ 03:59 AM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
Plugins offer greater quality for the buck, generally, and offer you unlimited instances (given the enough CPU horsepower). I would say $1000 will get you a decent enough computer for 32+ tracks, a quality 2x2 audio interface, cheap multitracking DAW software (Tracktion?), and a smattering of quality plugins that will get you much further than a similar investment in outboard. And as Milan said, when you're working with sequencers and MIDI, sync is a non-issue.
I applaud your efforts to "keep it real" on the analog tip, but fact is that it's really a big investment if you want it to sound as good as you're expecting it to. Software is certainly a change of workflow, but it's the most economical way to remain competitive today, sonically, imho.
Message 12/35 15-Apr-05 @ 08:49 AM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
what i do at the mo when need to eq a track is use the ART or my filter but it oftens means sampling back into the pc and then putting back in the mpc- not a problem really, i know my pc will not handle any multitracking at the mo as it practically falls over using something like the two plugs in a row-
a compromise is needed if you think the balance is ok ill stop stressing about that and focus on getting the mid and top end right- are they any other sonic critsicms you have? im at a stage where my sonics are letting down my flow of ideas as i keep hearing tunes and think damn how are they getting that depth and detail and then spend the rest of the time trying to at least approximate the sound
greg
Message 13/35 15-Apr-05 @ 09:04 AM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
greg
Message 14/35 15-Apr-05 @ 06:37 PM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
well, i cant listen to clips just now, but were signed to a good few different labels ranging from the type who require a dead on mix for critique, to the more helpful ones who will ask for a touch up/slihght restructure if they think it has potential.- so all is not lost! Id say getting attention in the first plafce means having a good mix so they take notice, rather than them listening to a fucked sub bass growling over the bottom ened for 30 secs and switching off
Unless you are in a nice treated studio with hrs or gen etc i wouldnt bother going away from the m1s / headphones. if you know anyone who works at a nightclub witha big sound system then get your tracks down there before opening time and hear how they sound ( even better in a packed club if your confident enough , bodys soaking up any shite to give you a good idea )
hats the best tip i can givce, it might break you at first, but in the end it will ultimatelly make your mixing better, A big system will absolutely tear your mix to shreds potentially so be warned
Send me a 256 of the track/clip to my SR address and ill have a peek for you, or give it a shove thru a big soundsystemn at the weekend and let you know where your going wrong m8
Alan
Message 15/35 18-Apr-05 @ 08:59 AM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
that would be simply awesome thanks!! im being real dumb though what is a 256? is it an mp3 file format?
thanks again!
greg
Message 16/35 19-Apr-05 @ 01:15 PM Edit: 19-Apr-05 | 01:15 PM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
yeah soz 256 kps mp3
alan
Message 17/35 19-Apr-05 @ 01:18 PM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
greg
Message 18/35 25-Apr-05 @ 03:03 AM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
been trying to bounce that reply back to you, but i cant seem to get it going? its saying the email address is not found or something!
anyway, not being ignorant- ive been trying to reply
alan
Message 19/35 25-Apr-05 @ 12:41 PM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
Hope that's useful mebbe
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 20/35 25-Apr-05 @ 01:11 PM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
thankfully the track im refering to is minimal yet i have been back and found verb a little too high if i imagined it club-loud, sounded good to me but i though when load that revereb will be a bit too much!! also trying to stay away from panning any main element beyond two 9oclcock so the stereo spread doesn't loose things
no worries alan ive actually changed that track now and taken the riff out and replaced it- did what you said on the BD (i think) i can send you a copy tomorrow if ok?
funny thing is when i listen to cd-ready tracks on my monitors is a big lack of bass (yet sounds balanced) yet i know the same club in trackk will have loads- its def hard to get that balance when you cant really hear tha bass end...
cheers
greg
Message 21/35 05-May-05 @ 10:35 AM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
i have just abed some stuff on hte way into work in my car and was dissapointed that my top-heavy mix (which soudned a bit harsh too me) was dull compared to the pro tune i put in after- cant all be multiband compression and mastering? can it?
greg
Message 22/35 06-May-05 @ 09:39 AM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
ive uploaded just one version, a version i balanaced against a morillo tune on a cd...to me this sounds a bit toppy and the bass end isnt as full....my previous version had the bass drum knocking harder but to conserve headroom ive had to renenvelope it and take some bass away- to me it sounds a bit thin but my last problem was they were too loud and prominent, the rest of the tune is balanced to the level of the bass drum and the spectrum of the morillo reference tune....
would be interested to hear your critiques on the mix balance....is the bass drum now too thin? is it just right? if i can crack the bd i can reference everything else to it and at least have a good starting point, as it is at the mo my procedure is this:
i get my bass drum banging, balance to it- realise i have very little headroom even though it is sounding as full as reference commercial tune- and good to my ears, record it at roughly the same volume as the ref tune- balk at the lack of top end in comparison- go back turn bd drum down make top heavy mix, balk at the fact my bass drums now sound like finger snaps, go back etc etc...
so if anything is not right please let me know- that goes for the mids too- any of them harsh to your ears?
oh and im moving soon so wikll potentially have a much better area to work in- woohoo!!
greg
ps- any constructive crits on the comp are welcomed although im not settled on the main riff- all suggestions on sharpening the sound are even more welcome!!
Message 23/35 09-May-05 @ 12:58 PM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
greg
Message 24/35 10-May-05 @ 02:34 AM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 25/35 10-May-05 @ 08:34 AM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
greg
Message 26/35 10-May-05 @ 01:12 PM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
what's the room like?... what sort of walls?... floor?... shape, ?.... where are the speakers located? - what amp? is it a hi-fi amp?.... got it all set flat etc?
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 27/35 10-May-05 @ 01:42 PM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
what's the room like?... what sort of walls?... floor?... shape, ?.... where are the speakers located? - what amp? is it a hi-fi amp?.... got it all set flat etc?
>>>>>>>>>>>
ill give it go, not done that before but cant see it being too difficult
basically my room (read bedsit) is a square but the furniture arrangements have mean that all my gear is in one corner-
speakers cant be more than an arms span away from each other-probably less- no more room in that sense- one is mounted on a kitchen cabinet the other on some books....at 60 degrees angle
amp is a samson servo, the monitor outs from my mixer run straight into that and then out into my speakers...
solid walls- old skool house means the walls between rooms aren't just crappy party walls but proper insultaed affairs....
carpeted floor, kitchen downstairs- its a large windowed/tall ceiling kind of place....
whole of my setups height maxes at below my shoulders meaningt i have to sit down to have my ears level....
even listening in my car the mix sounded ok, then i turn on a pro recording and hear a greater clarity and depth of the high end- almost like its bias towards the high end....im not sure if i have too much mid freqs causing me to turn the bass up or what....
greg
Message 28/35 13-May-05 @ 10:20 AM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
greg
Message 29/35 27-Jun-05 @ 01:15 PM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
[image file]
Right, i moved house but didn't end up with the mammoth room i wanted so have a rather limited set of options
attached is a bev of my new room- ive marked where furniture is to show that where i have my setup is the best place for it in terms of space (but probably worst in terms of sonics)
i have to put it all in the alcove pictures, behind the wall is a corridor/bathroom so the wall the speakers back onto isn't thick. the righthjand side wall of the alcove goes to the outside and also has awindow on it and the left hand wall goies onto a corridor- basically there are different thicknesses of wall around the alcove...
because they are alesis m1 mk2's there is no option on the backs of the monitors to compensate for being near a wall....
my idea is to make a gap underneath the speaker stand so the speakers aren't directly flat on the stands but elevated via some thin pins and to put some foam behind the speakers to help absorb some of the bass i reckon wilkl transfer to the walls and be amplified...
have you guys got any better ideas other than moving house, upgrading monitors or beating my flat mate until he gives up the bigger room? id like to get everything optimized before i start cabling everything back together...
cheers
greg
Message 30/35 27-Jun-05 @ 05:37 PM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 31/35 28-Jun-05 @ 07:33 AM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
greg
Message 32/35 28-Jun-05 @ 01:45 PM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 34/35 28-Jun-05 @ 08:50 PM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 35/35 30-Jun-05 @ 09:02 AM - RE: anyone got good eq ears?
greg
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