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Subject: final, final hi end solution

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Original Message 1/18 03-May-05 @ 11:10 AM - final, final hi end solution

Dominic

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I am confused. When reading reviews on the internet some people say I love the A/D convertors, others say the A/D convertors sound brittle and cheap. What would be your advise for mastering from a Mackie desk onto CD? Should I:-

1. Buy an Alesis Masterlink

2. Buy a Tascam RW2000

3. Buy the best A/D convertor box I can afford and go straight into my Delta 410 soundcard

Thank you. I have asked this question before but I need to ask it again.

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Message 2/18 03-May-05 @ 11:30 AM - RE: final, final hi end solution

Influx

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3, if you can afford an industry standard like apogee. straight spdif onto hard disk

altho...I have a friend that was doing pro mixes, tons of releases, and the masterlink was good enough for him BUT he was using an apogee PSX as a converter

BOTH?

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Message 3/18 03-May-05 @ 11:37 AM - RE: final, final hi end solution

Dominic

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Thanks Influx.

So why would he need an apogee convertor if he already had a masterlink? Does one go from the analogue desk - into the apogee convertor - then into the "digital in" on the masterlink?

So the A/D convertors on the Alesis aren't that good then?

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Message 4/18 03-May-05 @ 12:11 PM - RE: final, final hi end solution

S1GNALRUNNERS - BLU

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Yeah that single Apogee stereo in ADC

concern yourself with being able to produce shit-hot mixes before worrying about high end ADC solution tho ?

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Message 5/18 03-May-05 @ 12:36 PM - RE: final, final hi end solution

Dominic

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s'true. That is quite a pricey solution. Maybe if I was producing Celine Dion there might be justification.

How about I buy the digital board for my Focusrite MixMaster and then go from the digital output into the digital input of my delta 410 straight into Wavelab? Is that a quality solution?

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Message 6/18 03-May-05 @ 03:14 PM Edit: 03-May-05 | 03:15 PM - RE: final, final hi end solution

milan

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how about getting a better soundcard if yer not happy with that one? like a motu 828 or something RME or other.

A/D converters are about the last thing you'll need to upgrade in a typical home studio, unless you're using a really crap soundcard, which you arent i think.

edit:

or get that digital option for the mixmaster

no idea if thats cheaper than a new soundcard.

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Message 7/18 03-May-05 @ 03:26 PM - RE: final, final hi end solution

psylichon

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Convertors are one of those "last .0001%" kinda things, in my opinion. At work, we bypass the converters on our Digidesign 192 interfaces (which are pretty damn good) with an apogee frontend (AD16X) with lucid clocking. We've done A/B's between converters and clocks, and the difference is so negligible that I would say don't worry about it for now. There are a million other factors (the most important being your skill as an engineer) that will affect the outcome of your product.

My boss was mixing for one of my production clients one day and I was sitting in. He spent 20 minutes hooking up another converter to the masterlink to get "an edgier sound" and when it was all said and done, I couldn't tell the difference. My boss is a nutter like that. He claims to hear all these things.

Lots of people do... you have to trust your own ears though.

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Message 8/18 03-May-05 @ 03:53 PM - RE: final, final hi end solution

Dominic

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Cheers guys. So really, I'm being far too anal.

What you guys are saying is there would be absolutely no difference between a HHB 830 Burn It Plus, a Tascam RW2000 and Alesis Masterlink in terms of sound quality?

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Message 9/18 03-May-05 @ 04:01 PM - RE: final, final hi end solution

beds

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i think they're saying the difference is minimal

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Message 10/18 03-May-05 @ 06:46 PM - RE: final, final hi end solution

milan

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yeah... unless everything else in your chain is as good as it can get, dont worry about it.

reminds me of this guy, has an ok studio.. asked me if better converters will improve his vocal sound. err... how about changing the MIC for starters??

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Message 11/18 03-May-05 @ 07:20 PM - RE: final, final hi end solution

Influx

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they might sound different, but not much

honestly, I would say if you have a decent audio interface, the converters will be plenty sufficient

the person I mentioned was actually pulling native mixes out of his comp, bussed through a few high end pieces (mostly a C2) and then into the PSX100 using the Soft Limiting function in that unit. To my ears that was a good chain. Then went digi out to the alesis. A/D on the alesis doesnt suck but the apogee is definitely better.

BUT...just...never...forget, that GREAT mixes have been done on not so great gear!!!!!!!

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Message 12/18 04-May-05 @ 05:59 AM - RE: final, final hi end solution

damballah

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yep, how you actually perform your mix on that mackie (leave yourself headroom) is gonna be way more crucial than your a/d unless your a/d is total crap.

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Message 13/18 04-May-05 @ 07:49 AM Edit: 04-May-05 | 07:49 AM - RE: final, final hi end solution

psylichon

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I think you would get further by telling us what you find is the weakest part of your own productions. Be brutally honest with yourself, and with us, and we can help nail down the weakest link in your chain (if it is indeed technically-related) or at least work around it.

If you start naming mix issues, I'm willing to guess monitoring (both the speakers and the environment) are to blame. They're the usual culprits for most "inferior" home productions. That and not listening

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Message 14/18 04-May-05 @ 04:42 PM - RE: final, final hi end solution

Dominic

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Cheers for all the input guys. Much appreciated. However, all I needed to know has been answered. A/D convertors aren't going to have a huge influence on the final sound.

I have decided to get the digital board for my focusrite Mixmaster. So, from the analogue outputs from the desk into the focusrite and then out of the focusrite via a digital cable into my delta 410 and something like wavelab or into the digitla input of an alesis masterlink or HHB CDR thing.

That's really my question. Do I go from the digitla card on my focusrite into a delta 410 and then into an audio editor like wavelab or go into the digital input of a standalone CDR unit? I heard that wavelab uses apogee algorithms to dither from 24-16bit.

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Message 15/18 04-May-05 @ 07:04 PM - RE: final, final hi end solution

Influx

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me personally Id rather record to the computer, because the amount of editing you can do is a little more easy to handle.

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Message 16/18 05-May-05 @ 01:58 AM Edit: 05-May-05 | 04:33 AM - RE: final, final hi end solution

psylichon

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ditto on the computer. After the conversion stage, it's all just numbers stored somewhere, either on your hard drive, on the masterlink hard drive, or eventually burned to CD. Since ya got the computer already.... go for that innit?

I forget what DAW you use, but I recommend mixing down to a stereo track right in your multitrack session. This allows easy mix history review and A/B, and a reference in case something gets messed up.

Now, if you want to mixdown at a higher resolution than the multitrack session (not many DAWs can do this that I know of), then you will need some sort of external recorder. Some studios (my studio included) prefer this when mixing, say, a 44.1k project on an analog desk and want the master to be 96k. If you need this capability, the masterlink is a good choice and has become the standard, but it's not the only box that will serve that purpose.

If you don't need this capability, then just mixdown to your DAW. Personally, I think hi rez recording is more important for the pre-mixed multitrack audio because I do hear the difference in processing quality (plugins...especially EQ). But for mixdown, I think 44.1 is fine, since that's where it's ending up anyway innit.

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Message 17/18 10-May-05 @ 09:54 AM - RE: final, final hi end solution

Dominic

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OK. Been taking time to establish the best solution. Bought the Focusrite Digital board and it sounds good. However the next problem has arrived.

I can get the digital signal into my Delta 410 and I can monitor it. However, I cannot see any signal in the delta hardware control panel or in Audio Track 1 fader within Logic. I have selected digital input in the audio hardware settings in Logic but no joy. Does anyone know how I get Logic to accept a digital signal so I can record it within the project/arrangement screen like psy suggested?

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Message 18/18 10-May-05 @ 01:11 PM - RE: final, final hi end solution

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you want to select ASIO Delta for the driver in ASIO on panel2 in 'audio hardware & drivers'

the delta driver should present all available inputs on logic's track mixer for input selection

so input 1/2, 3/4 and the s/pdif should be the last pair i'd have thought

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