Forums - The lounge
Subject: explain this
Viewing all 36 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3 4
Original Message 1/36 02-Sep-05 @ 08:25 AM - explain this
I only mention it cos the p[rice of oil is going through the roof and once systems break down the sad truth - if you havn't got a gun you are going to loose. Would the liberals please realise they are a product of peace
Meanwhile - the argument over evolution/abortion RAGES
Message 2/36 02-Sep-05 @ 09:35 AM - RE: explain this
With a little practice, anyone with a knife can make decent arrows and if you get one of these babies, their range and accuracy is almost as good as a rifle
Message 3/36 02-Sep-05 @ 10:16 AM - RE: explain this
I suppose they have run out of soldiers to help out cos they are all abroad?... Conscription might be soon perhaps to keep the numbers up.... oh dear.
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 4/36 02-Sep-05 @ 02:32 PM - RE: explain this
Message 5/36 02-Sep-05 @ 02:53 PM - RE: explain this
civil liberties? my aris
greg
Message 8/36 04-Sep-05 @ 09:38 AM - RE: explain this
BUT.................
why build a city that is below the waterline? What wonderbrain came up with that idea?
G
Message 9/36 04-Sep-05 @ 10:06 AM - RE: explain this
Message 10/36 04-Sep-05 @ 01:00 PM - RE: explain this
keep your finger in the dyke maart.
Message 11/36 04-Sep-05 @ 05:04 PM Edit: 04-Sep-05 | 05:14 PM - RE: explain this
The Bush admistration cut the budget for reinforcing the levees to 0 last year.
Everyone knew this was going to happen, but they didn't seem to give a shit.
The lack of food and water getting thorugh was a delibearte decision by the federal authoriries.
They wanted everyone to leave and were afraid that if they allowed food and water in then people wuld say, 'ok, no problem I'll stay on my house then'
This whole debacle has shown the racist underbelly fo the US elite to the world, it is horrendous and hopefully will eb thend of Bush and his right wing racist, imperialist band of neocons.
From the Times Online: Link
Yet one preventable blunder followed another throughout the week as the city struggled to cope with the disaster. Aid officials claimed the residents of New Orleans had been left to fend for themselves without food, water and medical supplies as part of a deliberate policy to force them to leave.
They don't people thinking they can get comfortable and be fed and watered indefinitely, a senior aid co- ordinator said. It's going to take months to clean up this place and they can do it easier if nobody is here.
About 15,000 people were still waiting to be rescued yesterday from the squalor of the citys convention centre. Repeated pledges of early evacuation had yet to yield a single bus.
Message 12/36 04-Sep-05 @ 06:34 PM - RE: explain this
Not too many places would fair well given this type of disaster.
All of the roads and bridges into and out of New Orleans were wiped out, leading to MILES of backups as people with chainsaws had to cut their way into the city.
The levees broke. This was a money problem - the army corp of engineers knew it needed to be fixed, asked for a big sum of money to do it, and Congress gave them half. Then, in their infinite wisdom, Congress allowed a pork-barrell transportation bill to go through...
Too many people did not heed the warnings - they heard they should leave, but chose not to because they had rode out other storms (Hurricane Camille in '69, I believe, is but one example.)
Too many people did not have the money to leave.
The Federal government acted too slow to get aid and relief in once the storm hit.
People stole guns and shot at the rescuers, forcing many of the cops to stop evacuating people and try to restore order.
Too many of our national guards men and women are in Iraq.
Bush's approval rating is down to 35% as a result of these things.
Message 13/36 04-Sep-05 @ 11:30 PM Edit: 04-Sep-05 | 11:31 PM - RE: explain this
i watched a news special thing on bbc earlier today - the aid people seemed to just toss out big bundles of food and water onto the ground about a couple hundred feet from the crowds - i know prob due to fear of being overcome by people stampeding and fighting at them to get the stuff but alls that happedned was fit 20-30 year old young men running there first and grabbing packs , leaving the old, disabled and mothers/kids standing there unable to get anything - was true survival of the fittest stuff in its most realest cold form - hopefully some of those guys had conciences and did the decent thing
Message 14/36 05-Sep-05 @ 05:37 AM - RE: explain this
Message 15/36 05-Sep-05 @ 04:25 PM - RE: explain this
ahem
greg
Message 17/36 05-Sep-05 @ 10:00 PM - RE: explain this
i mean, a whole region of austria was cut off completely from the rest few weeks ago, due to heavy rains and severe flooding. i didnt see any looting going on there. and has there EVER been a response so slow? how many days did it take for american ships to arrive after the tsunami last year eh? they managed to bomb bin laden quicker than they managed to bring help into st. orleans
and the rest of the world is having a proper laugh in the meantime. Cuba (the hateful comunists, that stronghold of evil in the world), Iran (those muslim-extremist-mujahedeen who call usa The Great Satan), india, china, sri lanka for f's sake are all sending donations and help to the region, quicker than the goverment. ooer!
(i'm only pissed off at serbian goverment for not offering to send some observers down there, or at least toothpicks. you cant make a decent martini without one. not like i dont feel emphatic for poor people mind you!)
really people, where's the outrage? i was expecting a much more lenghty and entertaining thread after a week of being away! where's your spirit?
Message 18/36 06-Sep-05 @ 05:35 PM - RE: explain this
There is a lot of outrage, but right now they are focused on getting the remaining people out. The news shows are covering it, people are talking about it, but the focus is on relocating those people. There are 2500 coming up to my neck of the woods (Massachusetts, and we're a thousand miles away). Alot of people are being sent to Houston, Texas.
"and the rest of the world is having a proper laugh in the meantime. "
This is the type of shit that you'll NEVER hear an American say. Natural disasters have NEVER been a laughing matter for us - regardless of who it hits. When the tsunamis hit in Indonesia, the American people sent millions of dollars - well ahead of our government money. People dropped what they were doing to go and help out. I'm not suggesting that we're the most generous nation (Zazza I am sure would love to post statistics proving this) but the point I'm making is that we never "laugh" at anyones misfortune, be it self made or otherwise.
Look - the fact of the matter is that alot of people CHOSE not to leave, as I stated above. And there are lots of people saying that the looting was overblown. Sure, there were some incidents of looting, and there were gunfights between the police and some other people (I didn't hear the end of that story), and I'm sure that's what made it to the papers over there because currently (and not undeserved), the rest of the world hates us Americans. And that's fine, but to sit over there and chuckle while thousands of ordinary Americans are drowning is pretty low. It would be one thing if this hit Washington and only the fucking ass-face policy makers were affected, but as you can see from any coverage, this disaster hit a city with rich and poor alike. This wasn't a couple of buildings in a large city, or even a big city - it was AN ENTIRE REGION. Most of the rural Mississippi coast is still under water.
So sit back and laugh folks. Just remember that if something like this happens to any of you, the American people will be first in line to try to help out any way they can. The government may be slow to act, but the people will be there right beside you regardless of the color of your skin or home country.
Now, I'm sure some of you are thinking - Where were you in Rwanda, and now Darfur? How about Uzbekistan? Well, ordinary citizens aren't there for the same reason that YOUR countrymen aren't there.
Message 19/36 06-Sep-05 @ 07:08 PM - RE: explain this
Message 20/36 06-Sep-05 @ 07:20 PM - RE: explain this
I don't know what info has made it to your side of the pond, but the problem in New Orleans wasn't just the hurricane. After the hurricane left (there are films of people in the streets), there was minor flooding, but a few hours after the storm left, the levees broke. NO is 6 feet below sea level. So, the levees from the sea broke, and then the levees from the lake (there is a levee holding a lake back) broke, filling New Orleans with water AFTER the storm started to quiet. As the storm passed through Mississippi, it sparked some tornadoes that destroyed many towns there - some 40 miles inland.
This wasn't just high winds and rain.
So, they have rebuild the levees and pump out the city. That could take a while. Should the levees have broken? No. Have humans ever won a battle with mother nature? No. You could build levees a million feet high and sooner or later some even would happen that would knock them down.
Message 21/36 07-Sep-05 @ 06:29 AM - RE: explain this
the man sank every corporation he ever ran.....so why not sink the entire country?
funny his mom barbara saying how this whole thing's working-out for the displaced since they were pretty underprivileged as it were.
oh yeah...working out just fine.
Message 22/36 07-Sep-05 @ 06:37 AM - RE: explain this
start building quick jeb.
can you believe they named their son jeb?
hurricane season don't end til november.
it'll take 9 months for the mud to dry....and then hurricane season starts all over again.
better build quick.
got more tax dollars to throw down a toilet.
Message 23/36 07-Sep-05 @ 08:51 AM - RE: explain this
?????????
Either it is all wrong and bent what we've seen in the news, or there was a total failure of the coordination of available resources. What will happen if there will be a major earthquake in LA?
Message 24/36 07-Sep-05 @ 08:51 AM - RE: explain this
greg
Message 25/36 07-Sep-05 @ 09:10 AM - RE: explain this
yes i'm biased, so what :P
Message 26/36 07-Sep-05 @ 10:19 AM - RE: explain this
privatize this shit. eliminate the feds entirely and things flow far more smoothly
racist indeed. let the niggers die. thats what the rest of "us" are thinking. yup
Message 27/36 07-Sep-05 @ 10:35 AM - RE: explain this
paging jello biafra! paging jello biafra! "let me say that dirty word... sooocialism... sooocialism" (as in social security, social infrastructure etc)! something to think about in a nation with such a high gnp/gpb. the richer you are the less taxes you pay, and the less well off get zero education zero healthcare and zero disaster relief.
well at least few more people will realise there is something wrong with your system. not like the rest of the world isnt affected by your actions and general attitude, and like we wouldnt mind to see that change :/
oops... i'm surprised at how socialist i sound. must be my avatar affecting me
Message 28/36 07-Sep-05 @ 12:33 PM - RE: explain this
I don't see the problem myself with them not getting food.... judging by the footage of the refugees on TV, 99% of all those affected could easily not eat for 2 months and they would simply be reduced back down to a normal weight, cos nearly everyone you see on the tv news is a fuckin huge great supersized fat-assed lardbucket !!
I could just imagine David Atttenborough 'Wildlife Documentary' commentary over the top of the disaster footage:
"The Americans gorge themselves throughout the plentiful months of the year, building up crucial body weight , and it is this excess fat they have stored which allows them to easily survive through the lean winter months"
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 29/36 07-Sep-05 @ 01:27 PM - RE: explain this
If it keeps on rainin', levee's goin' to break, [X2]
"How come it's so easy to send planes in another country to kill everyone in a second, to destroy lives? Celine Dion
Message 30/36 07-Sep-05 @ 05:01 PM - RE: explain this
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 31/36 07-Sep-05 @ 09:43 PM - RE: explain this
we already have a very socialist system. its just disguised well.
I hear you though...privatization scares me too as humans arent to be trusted and it seems the exploitation would grow exponentially.
not sure either way, really. right now the govt is a joke, so ANY option is worth trying imo
Message 32/36 07-Sep-05 @ 10:01 PM - RE: explain this
fuck me if i'd rather have to sign up for private "social" insurance. i mean, how many scandals were there in the us about not-ticking-the-right-checkbox, so sorry your cancer is not covered, and neither is food or rescue in case of hurricanes.
if you are talking about a goverment paid private company for just such cases, yes that might be worth since you have who is liable to take all the blame in the end and not covered by the political immunity or whatever. still... someone has to PAY for that, and i think main moneymakers are being left off the hook more and more these days.
Message 33/36 09-Sep-05 @ 09:10 AM - RE: explain this
but...still though, here in the states, the govt is fucking HUGE. so damn big its just plain disgusting, and it seems like theres little strands of fed in EVERYTHING
yes, accountability is PRIME. Too often forgot these days, especially when the corpos are so closely tied with the politicos
hell, give me a true socialist state, not a welfare state, where everyone contributes, but no one is left behind...Id dive right in. seems like a good idea
on paper.
been readin a bit o' libertarian perspective lately, some leaning toward anarchism (NOT the way the public views it, just abolished or at least massively minimized central govt) and while some makes sense (interference often has negative results even when positive intentioned) again it only seems to work on paper.
with current mindsets, at least in the states, it seems that people would just run rampant, gaining all they could at whofuckincares who else's expense, no?
but thats how it is right now anyway!
I tried to write to one of these libertarian writers...and of course got no fucking response, so screw em.
anyway, i stopped claiming I understand anything a while back
Message 34/36 14-Sep-05 @ 12:08 PM - RE: explain this
by Jeremy Scahill and Daniela Crespo
NEW ORLEANS -- Heavily armed paramilitary mercenaries from the Blackwater private security firm, infamous for their work in Iraq, are openly patrolling the streets of New Orleans. Some of the mercenaries say they have been "deputized" by the Louisiana governor; indeed some are wearing gold Louisiana state law enforcement badges on their chests and Blackwater photo identification cards on their arms. They say they are on contract with the Department of Homeland Security and have been given the authority to use lethal force. Several mercenaries we spoke with said they had served in Iraq on the personal security details of the former head of the US occupation, L. Paul Bremer and the former US ambassador to Iraq, John Negroponte.
http://www.blackwaterusa.com/
" Blackwater USA is comprised of five companies; Blackwater Training Center, Blackwater Target Systems, Blackwater Security Consulting, Blackwater Canine, and Blackwater Air (AWS). We have established a global presence and provide training and tactical solutions for the 21st century.
Our clients include federal law enforcement agencies, the Department of Defense, Department of State, and Department of Transportation, local and state entities from around the country, multi-national corporations, and friendly nations from all over the globe.
We customize and execute solutions for our clients to help keep them at the level of readiness required to meet today's law enforcement, homeland security, and defense challenges.
Any and all defense services supplied to foreign nationals will only be pursuant to proper authorization by the Department of State.
Come to Blackwater, where the professionals train."
"This is a totally new thing to have guys like us working CONUS (Continental United States)," a heavily armed Blackwater mercenary told us as we stood on Bourbon Street in the French Quarter. "We're much better equipped to deal with the situation in Iraq."
Blackwater mercenaries are some of the most feared professional killers in the world and they are accustomed to operating without worry of legal consequences. Their presence on the streets of New Orleans should be a cause for serious concern for the remaining residents of the city and raises alarming questions about why the government would allow men trained to kill with impunity in places like Iraq and Afghanistan to operate here. Some of the men now patrolling the streets of New Orleans returned from Iraq as recently as 2 weeks ago.
What is most disturbing is the claim of several Blackwater mercenaries we spoke with that they are here under contract from the federal and Louisiana state governments.
Blackwater is one of the leading private "security" firms servicing the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan. It has several US government contracts and has provided security for many senior US diplomats, foreign dignitaries and corporations. The company rose to international prominence after 4 of its men were killed in Fallujah and two of their charred bodies were hung from a bridge in March 2004. Those killings sparked the massive US retaliation against the civilian population of Fallujah that resulted in scores of deaths and tens of thousands of refugees.
As the threat of forced evictions now looms in New Orleans and the city confiscates even legally registered weapons from civilians, the private mercenaries of Blackwater patrol the streets openly wielding M-16s and other assault weapons. This despite Police Commissioner Eddie Compass' claim that "Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons."
Officially, Blackwater says it forces are in New Orleans to "join the Hurricane Relief Effort." A statement on the company's website, dated September 1, advertises airlift services, security services and crowd control. The company, according to news reports, has since begun taking private contracts to guard hotels, businesses and other properties. But what has not been publicly acknowledged is the claim, made to us by 2 Blackwater mercenaries, that they are actually engaged in general law enforcement activities including "securing neighborhoods" and "confronting criminals."
That raises a key question: under what authority are Blackwater's men operating? A spokesperson for the Homeland Security Department, Russ Knocke, told the Washington Post he knows of no federal plans to hire Blackwater or other private security. "We believe we've got the right mix of personnel in law enforcement for the federal government to meet the demands of public safety." he said.
But in an hour-long conversation with several Blackwater mercenaries, we heard a different story. The men we spoke with said they are indeed on contract with the Department of Homeland Security and the Louisiana governor's office and that some of them are sleeping in camps organized by Homeland Security in New Orleans and Baton Rouge. One of them wore a gold Louisiana state law enforcement badge and said he had been "deputized" by the governor. They told us they not only had authority to make arrests but also to use lethal force. We encountered the Blackwater forces as we walked through the streets of the largely deserted French Quarter. We were talking with 2 New York Police officers when an unmarked car without license plates sped up next to us and stopped. Inside were 3 men, dressed in khaki uniforms, flak jackets and wielding automatic weapons. "Y'all know where the Blackwater guys are?" they asked. One of the police officers responded, "There are a bunch of them around here," and pointed down the road.
"Blackwater?" we asked. "The guys who are in Iraq?"
"Yeah," said the officer. "They're all over the place."
A short while later, as we continued down Bourbon Street, we ran into the men from the car. They wore Blackwater ID badges on their arms.
"When they told me New Orleans, I said, 'What country is that in?,'" said one of the Blackwater men. He was wearing his company ID around his neck in a carrying case with the phrase "Operation Iraqi Freedom" printed on it. After bragging about how he drives around Iraq in a "State Department issued level 5, explosion proof BMW," he said he was "just trying to get back to Kirkuk (in the north of Iraq) where the real action is." Later we overheard him on his cell phone complaining that Blackwater was only paying $350 a day plus per diem. That is much less than the men make serving in more dangerous conditions in Iraq. Two men we spoke with said they plan on returning to Iraq in October. But, as one mercenary said, they've been told they could be in New Orleans for up to 6 months. "This is a trend," he told us. "You're going to see a lot more guys like us in these situations."
If Blackwater's reputation and record in Iraq are any indication of the kind of "services" the company offers, the people of New Orleans have much to fear.
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 36/36 14-Sep-05 @ 10:12 PM - RE: explain this
what I dont see is...why is it an issue? unless something bad happens? I mean...the police there seem overwhelmed, and from the looks of it lawlessness is quite common.
perhaps these guys are just protecting innocent folks?
yes, privatization. the problem though is accountability. there needs to be a higher than standard level of it. doesnt exist for govt operations, but maybe for private?
I just dont see how the government would be any better in these situations? sometimes people assume that because it is "the government" right will be done, but that has proven time and again not to be the case. same goes for private entities as well, obviously, but at least those private entities are held accountable more stringently?
Viewing all 36 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3 4
There are 36 total messages for this topic
Reply to Thread
You need to register/login to use the forum.
Click here to Signup or Login !
[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]
Back to Forum