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Forums - Music techology
Subject: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
Viewing all 23 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3
Original Message 1/23 13-Dec-05 @ 05:47 PM - Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
When you produce music do you find yourself trying to fit in a certain genre, or use a genre as inspiration? Do you get miffed if you can't put a genre on your finished tune or do you really not give a snap?
Curiousity killing this cat.
S dub
Message 2/23 14-Dec-05 @ 01:43 AM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
GOOD question Sdub!... because if you TRULY let go and just 'do', invariably, unless you were raised on one genre of music and that's all you realy like and have as a musical reference, it's hard to fit the 'et go' results sometimes into a genre .... perhaps that's more so if one is a practicing musician playing other non-electronic genres on 'real instruments'.. alot of modern 'dance' (not early house) in a way DID come out of that scenario... guys who prolly started playing in guitar bandscirca 78-83, who played 'real' instruments and had a few bits of electronic gear around they came across, a crappy analog drumbox, or a 606, 303, 101, old juno or SH or some black squatty little Yamaha mono synth (they were good tho, really hard/analog!) or a Wasp etc etc.. that was the sort of crap that you'd see round at squats back at that time and people'd sit around stoned or tripping or speeding (heh heh) whatever and sling a 606 thru a bass rig and play bass with it plus some synth or guitar etc... experimenting... of course you had the sampler-based stuff done mostly with loops and samples, and the early PC tracks done on shit like SAW 4TRACK... but y'know, there was alot of 'letting-go' back then and stuff was 'invented' - also you had shit done with tape loops before even Mirage samplers came along... early hiphop was kicking in by 83/84 so that gave it some impetus i think... in fact, it was funny, i went to a small promo bash tonight for the college (all grime & hiphop/beats and the dj spin a track towards the end with a backing loop i used to listen to on a Kevy Kev track (Waterbed Love) on SugarHill back in 1983/4 (The 'All Night long' loop)
Anyways, it all came out of experimenting - as far as i'm concerned alot of 303 hooks came out of accidents while fucking around with a 202/303... I DO have a 303 manual NOW, but there NEVER was a manual back in the day when you had one in your squat for 2, 3, 4 or whatever weeks before the person who owned it stopped being stoned long enuff to remember where they left it, lol... So you'd come up with odd shit just by not really being able to put into the 303 what was in your head (like you can with midi stuff or s keyboard synth)... odd synth lines would come out, unintended stuff, but it sounded awesome!
Solar Quest's brother had a rig one setup at me mates place (in fact he moved into my old room) and he had a
25 years later we're seeing the same thing with pc's and fruity/reason which prolly gave us grime in the uk.
but then the mags get hold it, fix the genre, and you feel like you have to conform sometimes mebbe?... best of all is a track which is acceptible to a genre/set, or rather, it has enuff 'recognisable icons' (as William Orbit calls them) in the track for people to latch on to, but is odd enuff in the rest of it to be memorable.. the better tracks they tend to be.
anyways, it depends what you do... who you do it for, you can copy an established genre and knock out hi NRG tracks for the spanish market or whatever if that's your game. Nothing wrong with that, nothing wrong with making a living doing it if you want to try and if you can make it in a small enuff way to even pay the rent/bills/gear/life... in that order usualy - lol
Anyways, it all came out of experimenting - as far as i'm concerned alot of 303 hooks came out of accidents while fucking around with a 202/303... I DO have a 303 manual NOW, but there NEVER was a manual back in the day when you had one in your squat for 2, 3, 4 or whatever weeks before the person who owned it stopped being stoned long enuff to remember where they left it, lol... So you'd come up with odd shit just by not really being able to put into the 303 what was in your head (like you can with midi stuff or s keyboard synth)... odd synth lines would come out, unintended stuff, but it sounded awesome!
Solar Quest's brother had a rig one setup at me mates place (in fact he moved into my old room) and he had a
25 years later we're seeing the same thing with pc's and fruity/reason which prolly gave us grime in the uk.
but then the mags get hold it, fix the genre, and you feel like you have to conform sometimes mebbe?... best of all is a track which is acceptible to a genre/set, or rather, it has enuff 'recognisable icons' (as William Orbit calls them) in the track for people to latch on to, but is odd enuff in the rest of it to be memorable.. the better tracks they tend to be.
anyways, it depends what you do... who you do it for, you can copy an established genre and knock out hi NRG tracks for the spanish market or whatever if that's your game. Nothing wrong with that, nothing wrong with making a living doing it if you want to try and if you can make it in a small enuff way to even pay the rent/bills/gear/life... in that order usualy - lol
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 3/23 14-Dec-05 @ 05:07 AM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
i enjoy listening to people who've mastered their craft within a genre but only for so long before i enjoy hearing someone else who's mastered their craft within another.
i also like hearing people mix it up.
as for my stuff...it's the last thing on my mind...the need for a specific genre.
more like what the vibe is....tempo....mood...colors.....temperature....etc.
like hints of genres which tickle the edges instead of being caged in by them.
and whether i'm able to have fun or derive meaning from the doing of it.
it's no longer about tearing down boundaries but building new foundations where boundaries
have less relevance.
until i personally get to the glitch.....then i stop take a look...and run home.
i also like hearing people mix it up.
as for my stuff...it's the last thing on my mind...the need for a specific genre.
more like what the vibe is....tempo....mood...colors.....temperature....etc.
like hints of genres which tickle the edges instead of being caged in by them.
and whether i'm able to have fun or derive meaning from the doing of it.
it's no longer about tearing down boundaries but building new foundations where boundaries
have less relevance.
until i personally get to the glitch.....then i stop take a look...and run home.
Message 4/23 14-Dec-05 @ 08:52 AM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
pretty pointless really... There are so many and folks end up creating their own which sometimes catch on and sometimes not. So the list is ever expanding.
There was a link posted to a site here once that showed a sort of family tree of genres but I can't seem to find it now.
G
There was a link posted to a site here once that showed a sort of family tree of genres but I can't seem to find it now.
G
Message 5/23 14-Dec-05 @ 08:54 AM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
http://www.ishkur.com/music/#
There
There
Message 6/23 14-Dec-05 @ 09:29 AM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
Pro genreless!
At least I have never found enough discipline in myself to stick to a genre, while on the other hand there are all those possibilities to explore. I respect the musical craftmanship of those who take their time to learn the inside outs of one genre and use that to their advantage, but that approach just does not work for me...
And besides, I do this for the fun and the thrill of finding something new. And yeah, I don't read mags, hehh :-)))
At least I have never found enough discipline in myself to stick to a genre, while on the other hand there are all those possibilities to explore. I respect the musical craftmanship of those who take their time to learn the inside outs of one genre and use that to their advantage, but that approach just does not work for me...
And besides, I do this for the fun and the thrill of finding something new. And yeah, I don't read mags, hehh :-)))
Message 7/23 14-Dec-05 @ 03:58 PM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
i'm glad there are some guys who are totally devoted to their chosen genre as craft and
a way-of-being.
i was particularly taken aback last week when i was tiling this kitchen and felt a little winter-slump (hands in cold cement and water all day putting up stone doesn't make for a very warm-time)...anyway....i found this i-tunes radio station playing some trance....none of which i recognized and yet it sounded like every formula from all the classic styles of the last 10 years.....and done to balls-out perfection.....even revving it up a notch. not a thing out of place and melodies and such just really exploding away any coldness i might've felt that morning.
it might've all been done before but there was something to be said for that level of devotion to the form.
i always think of good dance music as good work music and so this fit the bill precisely.
after about 4 hours of that...i downshift to some super fine old-school jazz...mingus parker coltrane...and you know what?....were those guys interested in anything else but jazz at that time it wouldn't have been the same.
but times have changed and so have styles and people's needs for expression exploration and discovery.
what strikes me as hilarious though is when some guys start running around with a blend of specific styles and start claiming "this is the sound of the future". but....
i think the sound of the future will be some old guy blowing a flute under a tree in the post-nuclear wind after a whole planet has been decimated and man and his technology and achievements have been wiped-clean to smithereens due to our arrogance callousness and many-varied superstitios ( religious political economic+ fear etc).
anyway...til then we got the devices to make some.....so DO have some......FUN.
a way-of-being.
i was particularly taken aback last week when i was tiling this kitchen and felt a little winter-slump (hands in cold cement and water all day putting up stone doesn't make for a very warm-time)...anyway....i found this i-tunes radio station playing some trance....none of which i recognized and yet it sounded like every formula from all the classic styles of the last 10 years.....and done to balls-out perfection.....even revving it up a notch. not a thing out of place and melodies and such just really exploding away any coldness i might've felt that morning.
it might've all been done before but there was something to be said for that level of devotion to the form.
i always think of good dance music as good work music and so this fit the bill precisely.
after about 4 hours of that...i downshift to some super fine old-school jazz...mingus parker coltrane...and you know what?....were those guys interested in anything else but jazz at that time it wouldn't have been the same.
but times have changed and so have styles and people's needs for expression exploration and discovery.
what strikes me as hilarious though is when some guys start running around with a blend of specific styles and start claiming "this is the sound of the future". but....
i think the sound of the future will be some old guy blowing a flute under a tree in the post-nuclear wind after a whole planet has been decimated and man and his technology and achievements have been wiped-clean to smithereens due to our arrogance callousness and many-varied superstitios ( religious political economic+ fear etc).
anyway...til then we got the devices to make some.....so DO have some......FUN.
Message 8/23 14-Dec-05 @ 04:33 PM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
Dominic
Posts: 1128
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There is a new sub genre in house music now called "Game Show House". Seriously.
Message 9/23 14-Dec-05 @ 08:05 PM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
I try to make music in genre's I like 
But I usually wake up to what it is after the hours work
But I usually wake up to what it is after the hours work
Message 11/23 15-Dec-05 @ 12:28 AM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
the genre is an impetus in regards to vibe and audience. but once the song starts, it's all me, me, me.... and i'm so underexposed it hurts. So basically, I try to follow my uneducated heart and hope that something pure and true emerges, no matter how naive it may be. That's what I want people to take from my music and I think it's even more important in instrumental tunes than vocal stuff. Though good lyrics are hard to come by, it's fairly easy to state the point of the song with words and the expressiveness of a voice. To create the vibe you want with pure sound is difficult, and trying to do so within a set of rules is IMO tricky to the degree of futility. Unless that's yer thing, I guess...
So yeah, pro-genreless. In fact most things I listen to fall into that category as well.
So yeah, pro-genreless. In fact most things I listen to fall into that category as well.
Message 12/23 15-Dec-05 @ 12:29 AM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
That said, someone who can do instrumental music, stick tightly to a genre, AND evoke his/her own sound... well that's just damned impressive in my book. It's that third part that is so difficult to do once you nail the first two.
Message 13/23 15-Dec-05 @ 12:41 AM Edit: 15-Dec-05 | 12:44 AM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
i think it can be good to know your audience when doing a bit of music, sometimes its good having a guideline to work with, worrying about it is sometimes even more of a distraction !
When you go to some amateur or mp3.com websites (unsigned artists for want of a better term) normally a good majority is 'genreless' with a footnote of ' im not usre what this is, a mix of trippy guitar based breakbeats with a hint of trance riffs and a background of.......' BLAH! *sleeping and ive not even listened yet* if you dont know what the fuck you made dont expect me to listen to it!
To get noticed for soemthing 'genreless' and credited/released you have to be 100 times the producer of those who stick to a tried and tested route I reckon. Unfortunately too many try and of course fail!
I actually dont think theres too much in genreless anyway, everything can get pin pointed and watered down to an extent really, someone soemhweres got a name for it most likely!
When you go to some amateur or mp3.com websites (unsigned artists for want of a better term) normally a good majority is 'genreless' with a footnote of ' im not usre what this is, a mix of trippy guitar based breakbeats with a hint of trance riffs and a background of.......' BLAH! *sleeping and ive not even listened yet* if you dont know what the fuck you made dont expect me to listen to it!
To get noticed for soemthing 'genreless' and credited/released you have to be 100 times the producer of those who stick to a tried and tested route I reckon. Unfortunately too many try and of course fail!
I actually dont think theres too much in genreless anyway, everything can get pin pointed and watered down to an extent really, someone soemhweres got a name for it most likely!
Message 14/23 15-Dec-05 @ 01:08 AM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
quote
but once the song starts, it's all me, me, me.... and i'm so underexposed it hurts.
but once the song starts, it's all me, me, me.... and i'm so underexposed it hurts.
dude...you're so underexposed it hurts even ME.
don't know what to do about that.....but you're young still. just realize the difference between
over and under and the fine line between youth and the ledge on which i stand.
i was at soundclick and i have no idea how i ended up listening to this steve milward guy's tracks
(rock general?) but i immediately have fallen in love with this old bald 70-ish looking bloke (please don't tell karen).
mr. wilward is the spirit of captain sensible without all the toss and fart-jokes.....or production.
but listen to his first 2 tracks and well.....simplicity of hook and lyrics which both hurt and tickle.
his voice even almost sounds like the captain.
i'm going to ask if i can't remix his i don't know why> song.
i'll always believe the net is where one can find so much undiscovered gold.
i think some of us just gotzta knock some of the chunks of clay and dirt off ourselves so the shine underneath can register.
and we gotta love the music...the making it...the being it...the sharing it.
if even only twenty listen or 20,000...in a universe of a billion-plus galaxies...the difference amounts to spit.
Message 15/23 15-Dec-05 @ 01:12 AM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
http://www.soundclick.com/pro/view/01/default.cfm?bandID=375769&content=music The god steve milward
Message 16/23 15-Dec-05 @ 09:45 AM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
quote
dude...you're so underexposed it hurts even ME.
dude...you're so underexposed it hurts even ME.
i feel compelled to clarify that this was not a dig but rather a suggestion to get busy...get your stuff going.
don't let working in the field as a pro stifle one's own creative juices.
Message 17/23 15-Dec-05 @ 05:20 PM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
quote
S1GNALRUNNERS - BLU wrote:
i think it can be good to know your audience when doing a bit of music, sometimes its good having a guideline to work with, worrying about it is sometimes even more of a distraction !
When you go to some amateur or mp3.com websites (unsigned artists for want of a better term) normally a good majority is genreless with a footnote of im not usre what this is, a mix of trippy guitar based breakbeats with a hint of trance riffs and a background of....... BLAH! *sleeping and ive not even listened yet* if you dont know what the fuck you made dont expect me to listen to it!
To get noticed for soemthing genreless and credited/released you have to be 100 times the producer of those who stick to a tried and tested route I reckon. Unfortunately too many try and of course fail!
I actually dont think theres too much in genreless anyway, everything can get pin pointed and watered down to an extent really, someone soemhweres got a name for it most likely!
S1GNALRUNNERS - BLU wrote:
i think it can be good to know your audience when doing a bit of music, sometimes its good having a guideline to work with, worrying about it is sometimes even more of a distraction !
When you go to some amateur or mp3.com websites (unsigned artists for want of a better term) normally a good majority is genreless with a footnote of im not usre what this is, a mix of trippy guitar based breakbeats with a hint of trance riffs and a background of....... BLAH! *sleeping and ive not even listened yet* if you dont know what the fuck you made dont expect me to listen to it!
To get noticed for soemthing genreless and credited/released you have to be 100 times the producer of those who stick to a tried and tested route I reckon. Unfortunately too many try and of course fail!
I actually dont think theres too much in genreless anyway, everything can get pin pointed and watered down to an extent really, someone soemhweres got a name for it most likely!
I kind of have issue with this though, what is wrong with not knowing exactly what you made??? Why would you not want to listen to it if it cannot be described well?
Message 18/23 15-Dec-05 @ 06:15 PM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
I think there is no direct relationship between not being serious about music and not being able to classify a track. That two things are usually served together, but not always.
(Yes, as you might have guessed, I'm the kind of guy who is always unsure about genres, but is reluctant to associate himself with those afforementioned "amateurs").
(Yes, as you might have guessed, I'm the kind of guy who is always unsure about genres, but is reluctant to associate himself with those afforementioned "amateurs").
Message 19/23 15-Dec-05 @ 07:00 PM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
no one ever heard the word genre til electronic dance music came round in it's need to be able to delineate it's divisions of style into silly camps. it was no longer whether anything was any good at all...it was simply about whether it was breakbeat or house or deep house or hard-house or tech-house...or toothpaste trance or whatever so people could try to claim an affinity with anything they could label...being such sheep.....and so their purchases could be made within the one category they truly lay allegiance to....that week.
of course this was important for the clubs and labels too since they couldn't guarantee that everything they were offering was of any quality but it would be just what the label said it was.....nothing more nothing less.
and terribly irrelevant by next month.
what genre beck?
what genre anything truly interesting anymore?
it's like having a guy who's 45th generation dutch who's entire stock hails from the same village and all of his cousins are named lars and wear the same shoes.
that's interesting.
of course this was important for the clubs and labels too since they couldn't guarantee that everything they were offering was of any quality but it would be just what the label said it was.....nothing more nothing less.
and terribly irrelevant by next month.
what genre beck?
what genre anything truly interesting anymore?
it's like having a guy who's 45th generation dutch who's entire stock hails from the same village and all of his cousins are named lars and wear the same shoes.
that's interesting.
Message 20/23 15-Dec-05 @ 07:18 PM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
guess what style signalrunners usually make ...
we get asked to do specific styles quite often, when it's just something that we do not 'to order' i guess that's where influences come out more obviously. don't particularly care what anyone calls it. shit, mostly. ;)
we get asked to do specific styles quite often, when it's just something that we do not 'to order' i guess that's where influences come out more obviously. don't particularly care what anyone calls it. shit, mostly. ;)
Message 21/23 15-Dec-05 @ 10:39 PM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
quote
mcc> wrote:br />what genre beck?
what genre anything truly interesting anymore?
its like having a guy whos 45th generation dutch whos entire stock hails from the same village and all of his cousins are named lars and wear the same shoes.
thats interesting.
mcc> wrote:br />what genre beck?
what genre anything truly interesting anymore?
its like having a guy whos 45th generation dutch whos entire stock hails from the same village and all of his cousins are named lars and wear the same shoes.
thats interesting.
What?
Message 22/23 15-Dec-05 @ 10:48 PM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
simply saying it's all-too-often people trying to do and be the same thing.
not so tough to grasp is it?
not so tough to grasp is it?
Message 23/23 15-Dec-05 @ 10:57 PM - RE: Pro genre or Pro Genreless?
not too simple.....
people will always do that, even the pioneers are emulating to a degree. Emulation is inevitable.
people will always do that, even the pioneers are emulating to a degree. Emulation is inevitable.
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