From the bottom up..... - Synths & synthesis forums

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Subject: From the bottom up.....

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Original Message 1/18 17-Feb-99 @ 03:36 PM - From the bottom up.....

richard.munoz

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Perhaps I am a bit on the dim side, but I seem to not be able to get much in the way of exciting sounds when I attempt to program my supernova. I own a JP8000 and with that machine you can really get some weird and wonderful noises just by twiddling. The manual even gives a 'from the bottom up' approach to creating your own programs. However, the pre-sets in the Supernova are brilliant, and I am loathe to over write. So I started using the Vanillia sounds in bank D and twiddled away. All I got was a high pitch whine, which seems very hard to change! I know this cannot possibly be the case, so for us thickos, can someone please give me a fool prooof from the bottom up approach? the manula does not seem to supply one, and if it does, where? Help!

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Message 2/18 17-Feb-99 @ 04:19 PM - RE: From the bottom up.....

Muffy

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Why not start with one of the sounds you like from Banks A or B etc - See how its been constructed. If you make any changes, save it as a new program over the top of a Vanilla prog.

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Message 3/18 18-Feb-99 @ 09:14 AM - RE: From the bottom up.....

richard.munoz

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Thats a good idea, but what I think I am trying to say is that I want to sort of get a sound from the bare minimum and take it all the way through to being complete. This way it sounds morfe original, not just bastardisations of whats already there. Howver, in future I will try to do it the way you mention, and just over write the vanilla bank sounds with new ones, even though a bottom up approach in the manual would bve very nice. Cheers all the same!

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Message 4/18 18-Feb-99 @ 12:29 PM - RE: From the bottom up.....

Phill

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There is the section About Ananlogue Synthesis in the Manual...

The problem is if you have very little experience with sound creation or alternativley you want detailed Sound Design Techniques explained...I think this topic would be about as Big as a TELEPHONE BOOK.

The JP8000 may have simple examples in the manual but equally it is a much simpler machine capable of a lot but not nearly as much as the ASM Engine in both the Nova and Supernova.

I will take this to heart for Future Manuals though.

Phill@Novation

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Message 5/18 18-Feb-99 @ 01:20 PM - RE: From the bottom up.....

Richard.munoz

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You are spot on. There is a difference in the levels of complexity, however, a short couple of passages detailing the building of say a bass sound or a string sound, would be a great start. Ive never normally had a problem. Perhaps it is the complexity of the machine. I shall read the Sound Design Techniques section again. Thanks for your help.

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Message 6/18 18-Feb-99 @ 03:31 PM - RE: From the bottom up.....

Willy

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I too thought that the manual was very inadequate in several areas. As for the pages on analogue synthesis, this was no more than textbook definitions. All very interesting but not a great deal of help with operating the supernova. The SN is a very powerful machine capable of many things but what is the point of all this if you can't access them and opertae them properly?

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Message 7/18 19-Feb-99 @ 10:31 AM - RE: From the bottom up.....

richard.munoz

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Do you think they are assuming a level of competance to thier own here! I mean at the end of the day we are just trying to make music, and scheduling time to building new sounds is quite hard, especially in a session with an impatient artist!

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Message 8/18 19-Feb-99 @ 10:46 AM - RE: From the bottom up.....

Phill

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I had this idea...

I will try to make a section on the site about creation of sounds and sound design techniques...

This will take some time but I ca build it up as and when I get the time so that you guy's can at least read to where I have got...

Phill@Novation

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Message 9/18 19-Feb-99 @ 01:35 PM - RE: From the bottom up.....

Paul

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I would pretty much aggre with most of the comments above. I think other manuafacturers could look at what Yamaha have implemented on the AN1x in this departemnt.

When creating a new patch on the AN1x you can specify the basic type of sound you are aiming for, pad, bass, stings etc and the patch is initialised with some basic settings characteristic of the sound required. The user can then program around these basic settings to produce their own new patch.

The random patch generator on the Waldorf Pulse is also interesting. But note I said interesting not useful.

One real killer with the AN1x is the PC editor. This absoluely briliant piece of software is absolutely free but worth at least as much as the synth.

It would be great to have one for the SN+N

Paul

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Message 10/18 19-Feb-99 @ 11:48 PM - RE: From the bottom up.....

Willy

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Sound good phill i shall await it's arrival eagerly. I worry sometimes that all you hear is negativity. Were not all totally pissed off with everything about the machine and novation. You guys have done a great job in creating this web site and the supernova. Can't wait for v3.

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Message 11/18 21-Feb-99 @ 01:15 PM - RE: From the bottom up.....

jangley

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Hooray for Phil!

Posting tips on sound creation is a great idea and something that most companies would never take the time to bother doing. It makes good sense to me - people who get good results out of their SNs make good sales from word-of-mouth.

There's a lot of power under that blue cover and it's sometimes very difficult to use some of the more obscure facilities to produce anything musically useful. I know that I found FMs recent article on "how-to" lead sounds very useful. Lots of advice on what multiple oscillators are good for would be nice, for example.

Over to you

J

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Message 12/18 21-Feb-99 @ 01:19 PM - RE: From the bottom up.....

Jangley

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Just one more thing...

I find it REALLY difficult to figure out how the factory patches "work" because there's no way to see what settings are in a glance. Is there any way to get a pictoral represention of the ADSR envelopes? Is there any software which does this?

Thanks

J

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Message 13/18 21-Feb-99 @ 07:03 PM - RE: From the bottom up.....

fin

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I'd just like to add my voice to this thread by saying that I think the Supernova is one of the most obvious and easy-to-create synthesizers on the planet! If you're familiar with programming real analog machines then it's doddle. The modulation matrix is just like the Oberheim idea and the filter section is pretty straight forward. Building the sound up from one oscilator at a time, adding and layering, the machine really flows with you when you program it.

I'm not shouting at people having a problem here, I just wanted to shout out a VERY LARGE POSITIVE comment on programming the Supernova!

Novation are a living legend!

One request, please create a "soft-modular" version, like the Nord Modular, but with the warmth of the Supernova!!!

Fin.

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Message 14/18 21-Feb-99 @ 09:27 PM - RE: From the bottom up.....

Mickey

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J - diving into how the presets work will be MUCH easier when the Supernova adaption for SoundDiver will be ready. Expect this some while after the release of OS 3.

Mickey.

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Message 15/18 22-Feb-99 @ 10:39 AM - RE: From the bottom up.....

richard.munoz

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Well I started it I guess!
I really hope my comments wernt taken as 'negative' in the slightest by Phil. At the end of the day, I bought the machine, and that in itself is positive! Anyway, the sound creation page sounds like a BRILLIANT idea, as does the yamaha method though. All Im asking really is a quick way to get original sounds up and running, a constructive critique of a an awesome machine. Thanks for all your comments on the thread I started. The re-programming of existing sounds works a treat by the way. Wish there were more pages like this....

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Message 16/18 22-Feb-99 @ 11:57 AM - RE: From the bottom up.....

Phill

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You can see the values of where the parameters are set by Pressing the Compare Button and holding it down then while holding it down twidling the knob...

I will start planning a page on sound creation after the Messe...

Phill@Novation

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Message 17/18 22-Feb-99 @ 12:56 PM - RE: From the bottom up.....

Paul

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I'd like to add comment to waht fin said above. I have only had a short play on the SN (I have a BS and DS at my disposal). To me it seemed pretty straight forward to get to grips with. I can see why those familiar all purpose S+S synths may find the methods confusing but any one who has used analogues before should find this straight forward.

In fact just looking at the front panel makes everything seem pretty easy.

On the subject of delay. Setting the delay time to exactly the bpm figure rarely produces a great result. It is much better to adjust the delay by ear without looking at any displayed figures you may have. You may be surprised what works best.

Paul

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Message 18/18 25-Feb-99 @ 12:07 PM - RE: From the bottom up.....

cyberdog

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maybe the Wizzoo-Guide to analog-synthesis may be interesting for you: http://www.wizoo.com/docs/english/framer.htm

Greetz

Stefan

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