 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Forums - Synths & synthesis
Subject: Open Source
Viewing all 23 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3
Original Message 1/23 12-Mar-99 @ 02:44 PM - Open Source
Have you considered making your code open or semi open source? That would greatly expand the number of heads working at making your code tight, feature rich and bugfree. Also, if some one really wanted something unique, they could put it in.
Also, getting the rep of being the linux of synths couldn't be a bad thing.
Also, getting the rep of being the linux of synths couldn't be a bad thing.
Message 3/23 13-Mar-99 @ 03:06 PM - RE: Open Source
This really does seem to be a good idea to me. I can understand that Novation might be a bit protective of its ASM engine, but not making it public hardly prevents competitors like Roland, Korg, Clavia, Yamaha, etc from getting hold of the product and reverse engineering it - decompilers aren't exactly rocket science.
If it was a classic analogue and I knew enough electronics I'd do all kinds of mods to it - some people already do (eg Kenton). Circuit diagrams for servicing these things are available - I even know someone who built a TB-303 from diagrams he got off Analogue Heaven.
So could we have a look at the source for the ASM engine and its compiler. All the Open Source arguments apply - you get a lot of people working for nothing fixing some of those annoying problems.
Right, I'll get down off my soap box now.
J
If it was a classic analogue and I knew enough electronics I'd do all kinds of mods to it - some people already do (eg Kenton). Circuit diagrams for servicing these things are available - I even know someone who built a TB-303 from diagrams he got off Analogue Heaven.
So could we have a look at the source for the ASM engine and its compiler. All the Open Source arguments apply - you get a lot of people working for nothing fixing some of those annoying problems.
Right, I'll get down off my soap box now.
J
Message 4/23 13-Mar-99 @ 04:41 PM - RE: Open Source
How many other users of this forum are software designers/engineers like myself? I'm talking Assembler/C++ engineers.
I'd just be interested to know because I really do think the open source idea is a good one.
However, I do think they'd have to keep a certain amount of the core engine closed.
But at least it would be nice to be able to work it like a "plug-in" type model.
"Linux of the synth world" - that's a very neat idea!
I'd love to get my mitts into the OS.
Question to Novation then: How many engineers code the OS?
Sorry to be so bloody boring
Thx - Fin
I'd just be interested to know because I really do think the open source idea is a good one.
However, I do think they'd have to keep a certain amount of the core engine closed.
But at least it would be nice to be able to work it like a "plug-in" type model.
"Linux of the synth world" - that's a very neat idea!
I'd love to get my mitts into the OS.
Question to Novation then: How many engineers code the OS?
Sorry to be so bloody boring
Thx - Fin
Message 5/23 13-Mar-99 @ 05:49 PM - RE: Open Source
I wouldn't mind having a look at the code (for curiosities sake more than anything else). I'm not sure though about third parties making changes to the code......When Novation release a genuine OS upgrade, many people would have different versions and would loose any mods they had done themselves unless there was some sort of 'merge' facility - and that _would_ be complex to program.
Message 6/23 16-Mar-99 @ 03:27 PM - RE: Open Source
It would be no more complex than Linux's merge is. Mods submitted to a core review group. Even numbers are "stable," odd are "beta" and mods not in a release are "on your own" but anyone making their own mods isn't going to let that slow them down. ;) If effects were structured as plug ins, then there are x hot in the machine from an unlimited number downloadable via sysex. Need a really, really good reverb and don't care about ping pong? No problem.
Message 7/23 16-Mar-99 @ 03:50 PM - RE: Open Source
Sorry to put a downer on this one but we will not release the source code.
The Supernova's synthesis engine is carefully engineered so that the maximum piplining is poossible.
Having plugin's etc would ruin this process and make the code very ineffeicent.
Great idea but practically it would not work.
For the same reasons mods to the code to customise it would result in the same problem.
Phill@Novation
The Supernova's synthesis engine is carefully engineered so that the maximum piplining is poossible.
Having plugin's etc would ruin this process and make the code very ineffeicent.
Great idea but practically it would not work.
For the same reasons mods to the code to customise it would result in the same problem.
Phill@Novation
Message 8/23 16-Mar-99 @ 07:43 PM - RE: Open Source
HMmmm. I guess you can't argue with a company for not realasing the source code for their DSP engine, but the idea was bloody great.
Also, I think it's a touch unfair to assume that some of us would not be capable of maintaining the degree of optimisation within the code - for not busting up the pipeline etc...
Oh well. Novation have a outwardly impressive engine - who can blame them for holding on tight?
Fin.
Message 9/23 16-Mar-99 @ 11:52 PM - RE: Open Source
Rather than making the code open to everyone to muck about with, how about getting involved with the Creamware boys and start developing modular Supernova's or something for their Scope/Pulsar system. The possibilities with that system are pretty unique at the moment and very exciting, I for one would love to see some Novation oscillators with all the skewing and soften facilities in a modular system. How about it Phill?
Message 10/23 17-Mar-99 @ 01:53 PM - RE: Open Source
They use different DSP's...and it aint that simple to just swap over...
We currently have no plans to do this.
Sorry John if your out there!!
Phill@Novation
We currently have no plans to do this.
Sorry John if your out there!!
Phill@Novation
Message 11/23 31-Mar-99 @ 07:44 PM - RE: Open Source
> Sorry to put a downer on
> this one but we will not
> release the source code.
It is a shame and certainly your loss.
> The Supernova's synthesis > engine is carefully
> engineered so that the
> maximum piplining is
> poossible.
Like no one else in the universe ever thought of that? Like you have the only hotshot programmers in the world? Give me a break.
> Having plugin's etc would
> ruin this process and make > the code very ineffeicent.
I'm not convinced that there would either be a signifcant
decrease in speed or that any loss of speed wouldn't be made up in gains of productivity. Loading just what is needed has its own advantages.
For example: Keep all of the modularity on the PC. When changes are made the active patches and moduals are compiled and a complete, fully optimized OS is loaded on to the supernova. Parts that are propritary could exist in a precompiled library.
This would speed up bug fixes and development as well.
> Great idea but practically
> it would not work.
It is a great idea because it does work.
> For the same reasons mods > to the code to customise
> it would result in the
> same problem.
There is absolutely nothing magical about your code.
In fact, it has taken you 3 releases just to get the code close to stable. There was room in your "optimized" code to go from 16 to 20 voices. You really expect me to believe your people are some kind of code gods? Give me a break.
> this one but we will not
> release the source code.
It is a shame and certainly your loss.
> The Supernova's synthesis > engine is carefully
> engineered so that the
> maximum piplining is
> poossible.
Like no one else in the universe ever thought of that? Like you have the only hotshot programmers in the world? Give me a break.
> Having plugin's etc would
> ruin this process and make > the code very ineffeicent.
I'm not convinced that there would either be a signifcant
decrease in speed or that any loss of speed wouldn't be made up in gains of productivity. Loading just what is needed has its own advantages.
For example: Keep all of the modularity on the PC. When changes are made the active patches and moduals are compiled and a complete, fully optimized OS is loaded on to the supernova. Parts that are propritary could exist in a precompiled library.
This would speed up bug fixes and development as well.
> Great idea but practically
> it would not work.
It is a great idea because it does work.
> For the same reasons mods > to the code to customise
> it would result in the
> same problem.
There is absolutely nothing magical about your code.
In fact, it has taken you 3 releases just to get the code close to stable. There was room in your "optimized" code to go from 16 to 20 voices. You really expect me to believe your people are some kind of code gods? Give me a break.
Message 12/23 01-Apr-99 @ 12:07 AM - RE: Open Source
hey i'm sorry to just enter your conversation thing with my little problem but i'd really like to know how you can get lyrics to songs on the internet. is there a site that i can go to find them?
dancer_chic7@hotmail.com
if any body knows just send me a quick e-mail and an address or whatever
dancer_chic7@hotmail.com
if any body knows just send me a quick e-mail and an address or whatever
Message 13/23 01-Apr-99 @ 01:27 PM - RE: Open Source
Guys!
What are you all on !
The SN is a musical instrument used for making music. If you really have the time to hold down a job (which I assume most of you do if you can afford the SN) and make music why on earth would you want to spend time poking around in the code of a synth. Do any of you have lives at all.
I was once a programmer in various laugages (including C) but the fundamental bordem of this really pretty basic task over took me. I now manage the worldwide support operations for a major telecomunications public network signalling equipement manufacturer.
Let me tell you right now that however good you think you are you will mess up Novations coding, you will need support and you will probably bugger up your SN as well.
I help support some of the most expirienced and well paid C programmer's on the planet, some of which work with our source code.
They regularly mess things up and often want to return hardware when it is really their coding at fault.
You have not a hope in hell of Novation releasing their code and Novation are absolutely right to take this attitude (are you all ready to download code version with viruses !).
Judging by much of the content of this site some of those included in this thread are not even able to program their own sounds on the SN what would you do with the code !
In addition some of you seem to have very little understaning of DSP programming or technology but are trying to give the impression that you have. If your good enough, have the relevent expirience and think you can do better, ask Novation for a Job.
However, having said all that it would be really good to see Novation bring out a system along the lines of the Nord Modular.
This unit does give the flexibilty that those wanting to access the code would have. In addition you could allow people to design their own modules which is a step Clavia have not yet taken.
Also I really would like to see the adoption of some sort of standard for plug ins for synths. Novation may not be able to offer this facility on the SN platform but this capability could certainly be produced. We are starting to see it on top end digital mixers (ok, the Mackie)and there is no good reason why it could not be done.
Now, why don't you go and knock out a new tune rather than spending your time thinking that access to code for the SN would improve your musical output. It wouldn't it would just waste your time.
Paul
What are you all on !
The SN is a musical instrument used for making music. If you really have the time to hold down a job (which I assume most of you do if you can afford the SN) and make music why on earth would you want to spend time poking around in the code of a synth. Do any of you have lives at all.
I was once a programmer in various laugages (including C) but the fundamental bordem of this really pretty basic task over took me. I now manage the worldwide support operations for a major telecomunications public network signalling equipement manufacturer.
Let me tell you right now that however good you think you are you will mess up Novations coding, you will need support and you will probably bugger up your SN as well.
I help support some of the most expirienced and well paid C programmer's on the planet, some of which work with our source code.
They regularly mess things up and often want to return hardware when it is really their coding at fault.
You have not a hope in hell of Novation releasing their code and Novation are absolutely right to take this attitude (are you all ready to download code version with viruses !).
Judging by much of the content of this site some of those included in this thread are not even able to program their own sounds on the SN what would you do with the code !
In addition some of you seem to have very little understaning of DSP programming or technology but are trying to give the impression that you have. If your good enough, have the relevent expirience and think you can do better, ask Novation for a Job.
However, having said all that it would be really good to see Novation bring out a system along the lines of the Nord Modular.
This unit does give the flexibilty that those wanting to access the code would have. In addition you could allow people to design their own modules which is a step Clavia have not yet taken.
Also I really would like to see the adoption of some sort of standard for plug ins for synths. Novation may not be able to offer this facility on the SN platform but this capability could certainly be produced. We are starting to see it on top end digital mixers (ok, the Mackie)and there is no good reason why it could not be done.
Now, why don't you go and knock out a new tune rather than spending your time thinking that access to code for the SN would improve your musical output. It wouldn't it would just waste your time.
Paul
Message 14/23 01-Apr-99 @ 11:36 PM - RE: Open Source
Hey guys, don't you see that this discussion has been finished by Phill's thread of March 16th ?
Message 15/23 02-Apr-99 @ 02:19 PM - RE: Open Source
Yo Swarm...chill... I am not the big green monster!!!
Phill@Novation
Phill@Novation
Message 16/23 08-Apr-99 @ 08:09 PM - RE: Open Source
Paul - stick with management it is where you belong.
Phill, I am chill.
I'm also not impressed by you claims that novation's coders know best.
Given your current bugs and delays, I'm not even sure they are adequate.
You haven't answered any of the points I raised.
Have you considered setting up the board so that the most recent post is at the top?
Phill, I am chill.
I'm also not impressed by you claims that novation's coders know best.
Given your current bugs and delays, I'm not even sure they are adequate.
You haven't answered any of the points I raised.
Have you considered setting up the board so that the most recent post is at the top?
Message 17/23 08-Apr-99 @ 09:50 PM - RE: Open Source
Would a bank offer all it's investment strategies to the competition?
Get real...
However...if your shit hot we would like to know!!
Contact us...
Phill@Novation
Get real...
However...if your shit hot we would like to know!!
Contact us...
Phill@Novation
Message 18/23 13-Apr-99 @ 11:41 AM - RE: Open Source
Swarm. No managemnt is not where I belong, it's where I choose to be.
If you really find the monotony of computer programming interesting then that's just fine. Let's face it, it's a pretty straight forward task.
Paul
If you really find the monotony of computer programming interesting then that's just fine. Let's face it, it's a pretty straight forward task.
Paul
Message 19/23 13-Apr-99 @ 04:48 PM - RE: Open Source
Totally agreed! Designing features is much more interesting than implementing them...
Mickey.
(by the way, I'm a student of computer science :-))
Mickey.
(by the way, I'm a student of computer science :-))
Message 20/23 22-May-99 @ 01:27 AM - RE: Open Source
Guys,
If you need to get source code for Analogue Synth modelling then look no further than amazon.com under MIDI & DSP books. There's plenty to go around. Put your Visual C++ disk in and write your own.
I however, prefer to use the machines for what they are made for (with their shortcomings), making music on.
If you need to get source code for Analogue Synth modelling then look no further than amazon.com under MIDI & DSP books. There's plenty to go around. Put your Visual C++ disk in and write your own.
I however, prefer to use the machines for what they are made for (with their shortcomings), making music on.
Message 21/23 23-May-99 @ 07:46 PM - RE: Open Source
right ----
2. what do the code people here think about emagic's EASI proposals - weirdly, no-one seems to be even discussing it at any forum i've looked at -?... i'd have thought this was very relevant to the industry -
2. what do the code people here think about emagic's EASI proposals - weirdly, no-one seems to be even discussing it at any forum i've looked at -?... i'd have thought this was very relevant to the industry -
Message 22/23 24-May-99 @ 07:19 PM - RE: Open Source
Actually they're too much proposed low-latency standards right now. Almost every major company is trying to get one through. And almost all standards are proprietary. EASI is one of the first which is really "open" from the beginning. I suggest waiting... There are _some_ cards which you can really work with - even without EASI or ASIO or CakeAudio or ...
Message 23/23 08-Jun-99 @ 10:46 PM - RE: Open Source
well...if (as someone said) decompilers are so simple to use, and it would in fact be easy to open up the code anyway, then why not do it? write up a spiffy new OS, impress the pants off Novation, and have everyone in the music world worship the ground you shit on. (except for me, since I'm one of those broke folks that spends half as much on a car as you'd have to spend for a supernova, even an unexpanded broken one with typhus.)
simple. right?
simple. right?
Viewing all 23 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3
There are 23 total messages for this topic
Reply to Thread
You need to register/login to use the forum.
Click here to Signup or Login !
[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]
Back to Forum
