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Subject: CD-R's Software

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Original Message 1/22 09-Jul-97 @ 07:25 AM - CD-R's Software

bajaguy

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I have a CD-R and really cool mixes. Problem: I
want to put my stuff in CD's and be able to listen
to my work in regular CD players. I've heard of a
plugin for Sound Forge, CD Architec, or something.

Anybody?? Any freeware/shareware???

later,

Ben

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Message 2/22 09-Jul-97 @ 12:52 PM - RE: CD-R's Software

Spot

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Tizz true , sampling straight to sounforge is noisy and pretty shite, even after tweaking with the filters , i`m interested too, but i dont know of anything

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Message 3/22 09-Jul-97 @ 02:18 PM - RE: CD-R's Software

kilo

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sounds like your soundcard, cos the software doesnt introduce any noise....what is your card??

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Message 4/22 09-Jul-97 @ 04:44 PM - RE: CD-R's Software

spot

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awe 64 gold, perhaps i havent tweaked enough?

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Message 5/22 14-Jul-97 @ 06:25 PM - RE: CD-R's Software

david

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I use the AWE 64 gold with sound forge and it's great, no noise.
I did have a problem at one stage with noise which turned out to be an old karoake echo module's PSU generating some sort of frequency interference.
I suggest you try going through your set up, I doubt it's the sound card or that it's soundforge.

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Message 6/22 04-Aug-97 @ 08:04 PM - RE: CD-R's Software

TheWigg / gmwiggz1

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i've heard that the cool software pkg is the Corel CD Creator,
The format that audio CD's use is something called "RedBook". I
suppose that the Corel Creator converts .WAV (and all others) to this
format to then be "burned" onto the CD. I'm new at this, so if I'm
off base ... TELL ME!

I need to know! The other thing about CD-R's
is the media they use. Some are much more expensive than others.

I got a one-to-one review of the HP SureStore 6020i. The dude said that it works
very well and mentioned that the software has the most to do with noise added
during the "burning" process. Also said that it works better with an PCI SCSI
adapter than the ISA that is provided.

Any and all comments on this type of stuff is welcomed and encouraged!

Thanks

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Message 7/22 05-Aug-97 @ 11:43 AM - RE: CD-R's Software

avene

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Yeah, so can Sound Forge be used to create red book masters? I know that Wavelab now has the facility, but I haven't heard of that Corel program. I thought they mainly just did graphix software.

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Message 8/22 05-Aug-97 @ 08:09 PM - RE: CD-R's Software

TheWigg

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I wasn't aware of S.Forge being able to do that. I went to
the Corel webby and didn't see any mention of Creator, perhaps I am mistaken.

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Message 9/22 06-Aug-97 @ 06:16 AM - RE: CD-R's Software

avene

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I don't know if it can do it. If it could it would probably be a good program for mastering with the plug-ins and stuff.

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Message 10/22 06-Aug-97 @ 09:57 AM - RE: CD-R's Software

Spot

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There is a beta release floating about of "Easy CD pro", apparently it has options like , taking music from cassete,Vinyl, etc to create cd`s , also has disk at once options so you can record straight thru with NO gaps(although the old copy had that),is pretty good , i had a copy , but there were too many bugs in it, kept crashing, havta try and find out a bit more

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Message 11/22 06-Aug-97 @ 10:26 AM - RE: CD-R's Software

Spot

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Message 12/22 15-Aug-97 @ 12:25 AM - RE: CD-R's Software

LuThai

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>Yeah, so can Sound Forge be used to create red book
>masters?

Avene,I doubt it. Soundforge has been hyping CD Architect's
ability to create Red Book standard audio CD's. Architect
is intented to be used as a Plug-In or standalone and from
my most recent catalog it has the same $299 price as
Soundforge 4.0. However, it has recieved some awesome reviews.
It is said that with both programs you could master your own
audio CD's with quality near that of Pro studios. I of course
would like to see what a real user has to say about it first,
before I dish out a whole paycheck for it. Especially when
most of the CD-R Drives I've seen come with Corel Creator,
Easy CD pro, or Toast included.

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Message 13/22 15-Aug-97 @ 01:31 AM - RE: CD-R's Software

kilo

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yeah but with CD plants offering pressing at about a quid each why on earth do you want to procduce them at home for about 5 quid each ???.....hey and also here we are talking dance....which generally, ignores the rules of the industry.........the best cuts to me are the cheapest...hey that could be a song...check it !!...."The best cut is the cheapest....".etc....heh anyhow, if you get a deal, even a 50-50 cut on a 2000 run, the company will pay the mastering, after all, they are the manufacturer/distributor in this case.

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Message 14/22 15-Aug-97 @ 05:05 PM - RE: CD-R's Software

avene

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So what is the best mastering software for the PC???? I'd really like to hear any opinions on this one. The 2 mastering suites we use for most the stuff I record charge $110 and $195(Australian) per hour. Yeah sure, the record labels pay for it most of the time, but it's a f#&%^ rip off !!!! Not only that, 50% of the time the original studio DAT sounds better than the final master....

I know a couple of people with Macs(there not assholes by the way!) who do there own mastering with software a lot cheaper than Pro Tools, so I'm sure it's possible to do stuff that's decent with a PC. One of these guys was telling me that you can do the same sort of stuff that you can do on a TC Electronics finalizer, with certain plug-ins that are available for Cubase VST. Is Wavelab any good? I know it's got redbook, and apparently some of the plug-ins are alright. Does anyone use this software?

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Message 15/22 16-Aug-97 @ 05:49 AM - RE: CD-R's Software

LuThai

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I Think it would be worth the price of a CD-R drive and $5.00
per CD-R just to be able to record my favorite homemade trax and
play them almost anywhere. I would also be able to send off
my sigles to have them pressed to vinyl. I would then be able
to mix my own stuff at gigs. I would also love to record my
own re-mixes to CD for personal use. I have no idea if I'll ever
get signed, but I'd still love to put my music on the most
popular digital media in the world. I'm looking in one of my catalogs
write now and I see a CD Re-Writable drive going for $699 with CD-RW
media costing $25 each. Let's face it, There are a lot more CD players
out there than DAT players, and if prices keep going down (which they will)
I don't see why any computer based home studio wouldn't want to have one.
I have seen very few DAT recorders for less than $800. By the
way, kilo, do you plan on making an article about breaking
into the industry? I would go 50/50, except I don't know where
to send my demo.

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Message 16/22 18-Aug-97 @ 12:46 PM - RE: CD-R's Software

kilo

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what I'm saying is...........alot of the time, mastering is done badly......like the man said.....often it sounds worse than the original dat.........There is NO NEED to add compression & stuff at all, alot of mastering peeps just automatically go for that without thinking.........all you need, is the tracks in the correct order....with a normalised volume level, so all the tracks are at similar level & there aren't big changes in level from track to track.......

NOW all THAT CAN BE ACHIEVED WITH A SOFTWARE LIKE SOUNDFORGE, SAWPLUS, ETC ETC.........

WHAT i'M ALSO SAYING IS.....THAT FOR THE PRICE OF THE CDR RECORDER, AND THE SCSI CARD CAPABLE OF THE THROUGHPUT, AND THE BLANK CD'S, THIS TOTALS ABOUT 2/3 THE PRICE OF A 1000 CD RUN........SO if YOU REALLY BELIEVE IN YOUR MUSIC.......WHY NOT GET 1000 CD'S BURNED AND SELL THEM !!!

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Message 17/22 19-Aug-97 @ 12:22 PM - RE: CD-R's Software

avene

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ahh....I think youy're gonna need a bit more that just normalizing...Although I said that the studio dats usually sound better, most of the time you're still gonna need some sort of mastering, whether it be eqing or multiband compression.... the main problem I seem to have is that you record something to sound really fat, and then some mastering engineer makes it sound like some top endy pop shit....when they should just be fixing any muddiness or whatever......as for cd recorders, I don't have one yet, but I know that a few cd manfacturers will only accept cdrs as a production master these days, so you may need one anyway....

at the end of the day though i guess its always the music thats most important... Here's a funny story, a few years back some friends of mine released a cd album....it was a rap album... they recorded the whole thing- vocals and everything live to cassette...all the music was coming from the stereo outs of an Akai MPC60- no effects, eq or anything, and the tape deck was some dodgy affair from the 70's, you know, one of those ones where the tape slides in horizontally... once all the tracks were recorded to cassette they then recorded them to dat, just so they could compile them in a different order.... they did this at my place by the way and it sounded crap, but it was hella funny.. Next thing I know they've payed $4700 and pressed up 1000 cds.

what cracks me up the most though is - they sold enough to get their money back !!!

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Message 18/22 19-Aug-97 @ 01:59 PM - RE: CD-R's Software

avene

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actually, I just found out Sonic Foundary have a CD writing program called CD architect which works with Soundforge. this could be the go....

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Message 19/22 19-Aug-97 @ 02:53 PM - RE: CD-R's Software

Bollock

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Thats bollocks Kilo, i bought my CD Writer for 180 quid , and i pay �1.50 per blank , its cheap , and if you do your compiling right, and levels etc, you can get an amazing sounding cd put together, I`m all done Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Message 20/22 19-Aug-97 @ 06:18 PM - RE: CD-R's Software

kilo

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er Bollox ??........well those prices are bloody cheap.... what make & model of CDR was that then,
and where did you get it ?
...... I assume you already had the scsi card to connect it up, cos you aint included that on the list ? ?
..... and where are you getting blanks that cheap.....I get 'em from Ideal hardware at about 3 quid
each average for a box of 10.........but if you read what I'm saying it aint bollox.....
tell us where you get this stuff........at the average prices I've seen, something like a Plasmon CDR
would be about 325 -350 ish.....the 2940 about 160 ish, and the blanks on top
.....Ok ...I exagerated slightly if you go on straight average advertised cutting prices......so around 450-550 for the hookup + blanks......which is about 1/2 of a 1000 cd run, at standard plant prices....(without mastering fee which is about 300 ish)......but you can get pressing cheaper than that if you hunt around.....so it would be about 2/3rd's the price at a good deal plant if you exclude the infamous "Mastering" ....

so I'm simply saying, that to produce a master for a company to distribute/press,
the DAT master is enuff......You CAN ask the engineer to NOT fuck with the DAT
at the mastering stage, ...you are allowed to be there......and if you've gotta choose between a DAT & CDR there's NO competition
.........as a musician, you'd have to be a fool to buy a CDR over a DAT
......how can you mix external & internal sounds live to a CDR?
.........I will concede that if you are working in h/d only, then yes you can burn down to CDR
.......but otherwise it's a non-starter !!........DAT's can be re-recorded etc
......CDR's can't........etc etc.......
and whilst yes it must be great for people to walk around with a cd to play their cutz from,
if you do have an external set-up, you're gonna have to get a dat to mixdown to anyway........

So.........where are these great prices from then ?......I need to know.....well at those prices 150 for a cdr.......we all want to know !!!....

also I'd say........when I've done a mix.......it's fine !!........ I dont need any eq. or compression or that stuff.........I want it how I mix it !!.........
all I need is normalisation & compliation in the correct order/ time length.......what I DONT want , is bloody mastering engineers pratting about with my sound !!

I cant understand your logic Avene........first you say that stuff sounds great when you mix it, then the mastering engineer turns it into some pop/thin sounding shite........and at the same time you're advocating applying just the techniques that result in that crap sound......The whole point WHY indie dance sounds so upfront and raw, is precicely due to those reasons.....so that's why a new Prodigy album sounds like a heap of thin crap........cos it's a record company mastered consumer product........also most plants will work happily from DAT.......so you can simply avoid those that will only master from CDR.....

so I dont think it's bollox to say that as an alternative viewpoint, if you believe enuff in your stuff, then maybe it's worth thinking about cutting a 1000 CD run.......after all, cd's are about a tenner retail cheapest......so if you flog 'em at a deep-sea each, then if it's good stuff why shouldnt you sell it ??........sell 1000 at a fiver each & thats 5K to re-invest !!!.....worth thinking about !.....you just have to be disciplined enuff NOT to spend all the money you make in dribs & drabs as it comes in, but to stick some of it aside to pay for the next run etc......worth a thought maybe mr bollox !.......even cheaper for vinyl....lets face it, no ones gonna play a cd in a club huh ??!!.....

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Message 21/22 20-Aug-97 @ 12:54 PM - RE: CD-R's Software

avene

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Alright, so originally I said that 50% of the time the studio dat usually sounds better than the final master... At the same time I never actually said that i'm 100% happy with how the studio dat usually sounds... I wasn't being too specific here, but what I mean is that no matter how good the studio dat sounds, most of the time it will still need some sort of enhancement so that it sounds loud enough on radio or whatever.... but as I was saying a lot of mastering engineers tend to change the whole sound of the track rather than just enhancing it ..It makes no difference what gear they use, whether it's a valve eq, multiband compressors or anything,, it's just how they've been programmed, as to how music should sound. I hope you understand what I'm saying here. Unfortunately a lot of tracks I do tend to be for compilation albums, so you don't get to attend the mastering.

00Now as for the 50% of stuff that does sound alright... If you do get to attend the mastering, the best thing to do is take along a cd that you relly like the sound of and ask the engineer to try and make your track sound like that... If they know what they're on about they can usually do it... One other thing with mastering is the oscilloscope which shows you how spatial your sounds are. This is a good way of determining how stereo or mono something is. Apparently Apogee converters make a difference also.

Whatever the outcome, if the studio master sounds alright, and your confident it'll sell, go for it. As for vinyl, although I prefer vinyl, there are no pressing plants in this country anymore - which really sucks. Also, the cd manafacturer my label deal with, only take CDRs, but apparently they're real cheap. I do understand that things are probably a lot different in the UK though.

If this all sounds like a bit of a toss, it's not meant to, it's just an opinion based on stuff I've learnt over the last couple of years.

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Message 22/22 15-Sep-97 @ 12:17 PM - RE: CD-R's Software

PC Man

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Look around in pc mags for good prices. I have just
bought a CDRW (rewriteable) for 230 squid + vat.

Blanks work out about 1 1/2 squid for unbranded gold disks.
These are said to be unreliable & 1 in 20 fail,
I've never experiened this. Even if 1 or 2 do fail, what
do you want for �1.50, cassettes snap all the time.
Branded rewriteables cost about
�15 (Uk) and seem to last forever .. write..erase...
write...erase...................

Look at PC mags like Micro-Mart & pickup a good deal
with warranty n stuff & don't get ripped off by the big
name resalers.

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