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Forums - Music techology
Subject: Tedious Computer Questions
Viewing all 13 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2
Original Message 1/13 15-Jan-98 @ 06:08 AM - Tedious Computer Questions
Alright guys, here it comes:
After thinking it out for a while I've decided that since I don't plan on playing live soon, a computer would serve my purposes much more than having to shell out the cash for a sequencer, sampler, etc . . .
So, my long, tedious question comes in this form: Since I don't know shit about computers to begin with what's the best used system to go for? I.E., exactly which components do you recommend for a price (hopefully) under $700-$800.00 not including monitor? Also, how much do sound cards generally cost (I imagine I'll be hard pressed to find the exact system that I want used) and which ones do you recommend to be able to sample? Do you have to have a sound card even if you're using external synths, such as a Pulse? And lastly, do computer sequencers vary at all from hardware sequencers? (Are they easier, harder, or neither to program)?
Sorry to be one of those guys that asks "help, I don't know what to look for" when there is this site right in front of my eyes, but it seems a little daunting right now.......At any rate, I will go back and check out the comp. sections again so I can hopefully start to digest all this info.
----------
Much appreciation,
Brad
After thinking it out for a while I've decided that since I don't plan on playing live soon, a computer would serve my purposes much more than having to shell out the cash for a sequencer, sampler, etc . . .
So, my long, tedious question comes in this form: Since I don't know shit about computers to begin with what's the best used system to go for? I.E., exactly which components do you recommend for a price (hopefully) under $700-$800.00 not including monitor? Also, how much do sound cards generally cost (I imagine I'll be hard pressed to find the exact system that I want used) and which ones do you recommend to be able to sample? Do you have to have a sound card even if you're using external synths, such as a Pulse? And lastly, do computer sequencers vary at all from hardware sequencers? (Are they easier, harder, or neither to program)?
Sorry to be one of those guys that asks "help, I don't know what to look for" when there is this site right in front of my eyes, but it seems a little daunting right now.......At any rate, I will go back and check out the comp. sections again so I can hopefully start to digest all this info.
----------
Much appreciation,
Brad
Message 2/13 15-Jan-98 @ 07:31 AM - RE: Tedious Computer Questions
You can get a 166mmx new for under $800 with out monitor.
sound cards come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. Starting as low as $75. You have to decide what your
needs are. some can sample,and some have middi interfaces. You only need a middi
interface to sequence from your computer. The audio
is output from your synth which in return can be played
through your sound card or amp. Computer sequencers
have more possibilities than hardware, but sequencing
is sequencing.
sound cards come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. Starting as low as $75. You have to decide what your
needs are. some can sample,and some have middi interfaces. You only need a middi
interface to sequence from your computer. The audio
is output from your synth which in return can be played
through your sound card or amp. Computer sequencers
have more possibilities than hardware, but sequencing
is sequencing.
Message 3/13 15-Jan-98 @ 09:11 AM - RE: Tedious Computer Questions
have a look at Kilo's excellent soundcard section and the feedback posted regarding each model of soundcard (pretty well all the decent models from budget to midrange are reviewed). Personally, I believe the Teratec EWS64XL looks like the most fully featured and best value for a PC- it has midi interface ( 2 X in and 2 X outs i think), built-in synth and sampler.digital I/O.read the review anyway.. in Australia they go for $1300 which is probably half the price in the..er..US.. (is that where you're from?).
Message 4/13 15-Jan-98 @ 07:51 PM - RE: Tedious Computer Questions
well......
if 2 outputs of audio are enuff for you, and you're happy to mix those 2 outputs as 2 channels on a mixer with your external midikit, then a software such as Cakewalk pro audio version 5 is easy to pick up secondhand, and will give you plenty of audio tracks..... however, apart from eq, there are no fx... so to add reverb etc to audio, you need to add that on a mixer.... so that means with only 2 outputs, you are limited to 2 seperate audio outs, or a stereo out........ a pc to run that software with about 8 mono tracks would be a P100 - 166 with about 48 - 64 mb.....
now.... if you want to run say Cubase VST, or Cakewlk pro audio V6... these both have built in reverb, delay etc... so you can add these fx to individual tracks and therefore the 2 outputs is less of a problem, cos you can add fx internally, and happily use the stereo output of your soundcard, whilst still achieving seperate reverb or delay amounts on audio tracks....
or.... these programmes also address more than one soundcard, or soundcards with more than 2 outs...... so you could add a multi-output soundcard such as the Event cards, and mix all your audio on seperate mixer channels.........
however..... to run these softwares, you need a much faster machine, and ... there is a lot of disparity between systems, and realised audio tracks.........
if you go for an AMD 233, this will be cheaper than intel... trouble is, nearly all the motherboards come with TX chipsets...with Intel or AMD, the TX chipset slows down your system if you use more than 64mb ram... but 64mb, should be ok to run VST or cakewlk V6....... I have 2 mates with AMD 200's... and they are both getting about 8-12 tracks of VST audio....(with a few glitches here and there)
Ok....... so.... if a few audio tracks are ok for you to add to your audio samples, and you're happy with 2 audio outs, then a lower power pc, with the terratec card will give you 2 audio outs, and also outs for your samples... 4 in total... these can be blended with your external midi device audio outs on a small 8 or 10 channel mixer such as a Soundcraft Folio or whatever....for this, an older software such as cakewalk Pro Audio V5 will do the job....
either way...... Ram etc has started to go up in price again, due to the far east financial fiasco... so you can blame the chinese for that...... I can get an AMD 200 with 64 mb, and about 4 gb drive for around 650 (uk sterling) without monitor.... but where you are it's maybe more ?... i dunno...
if you then add the terratec, you'll have a sampler too and a synth.....
so it's your call...... a cheaper pc, with only 2 audio outs + the sampler outputs, with mixing for fx done outside the pc...... or a faster pc with internal Fx processing.......
bear in mind, there's gonna be a small price drop in intel chips around the end of January, with most of the lower power MMX chips discontinued in march..... at this point, there'll be another Intel price drop....AMD's will probably drop abit too then....... so it may be worth holding out a bit..... however, No-one can predict what will happen in the pacific basin, and ram and other hardware prices may be driven up nullifying any chip price drops...... I dunno ?.....
but... that is basically your options...... the Terratec will be about 400 - 500 in dollars or Uk sterling depending on dealer...... the pc ?...... dunno how cheap you get them, but to go for the VST or Cake-6 package, maybe you should increase your budget to about 1000......
but....... about 8 virtual audio tracks, with 2 physical outputs is fine for alot of dance stuff, and adding the sample outs to this, gives alot of power, if this is ok, then even an older P120 will do it ok.....remember, the sampler is triggered from midi notes, and these place little strain on the pC CPU & ram..... so the sampler card will deliver lots of audio up to it's ram limit, regardless of your pc power.....
the terratec... or whatever soundcard you get, will output your midi data to your external synths, drum boxes, modules etc... no need for a seperate midi card..... the terratec has 2 midi outs... each handling a full 16 channels.....
lastly, all sequencers take time to learn...... a s/ware sequencer is no harder or easier than a hardware one........ just learn it.....
if 2 outputs of audio are enuff for you, and you're happy to mix those 2 outputs as 2 channels on a mixer with your external midikit, then a software such as Cakewalk pro audio version 5 is easy to pick up secondhand, and will give you plenty of audio tracks..... however, apart from eq, there are no fx... so to add reverb etc to audio, you need to add that on a mixer.... so that means with only 2 outputs, you are limited to 2 seperate audio outs, or a stereo out........ a pc to run that software with about 8 mono tracks would be a P100 - 166 with about 48 - 64 mb.....
now.... if you want to run say Cubase VST, or Cakewlk pro audio V6... these both have built in reverb, delay etc... so you can add these fx to individual tracks and therefore the 2 outputs is less of a problem, cos you can add fx internally, and happily use the stereo output of your soundcard, whilst still achieving seperate reverb or delay amounts on audio tracks....
or.... these programmes also address more than one soundcard, or soundcards with more than 2 outs...... so you could add a multi-output soundcard such as the Event cards, and mix all your audio on seperate mixer channels.........
however..... to run these softwares, you need a much faster machine, and ... there is a lot of disparity between systems, and realised audio tracks.........
if you go for an AMD 233, this will be cheaper than intel... trouble is, nearly all the motherboards come with TX chipsets...with Intel or AMD, the TX chipset slows down your system if you use more than 64mb ram... but 64mb, should be ok to run VST or cakewlk V6....... I have 2 mates with AMD 200's... and they are both getting about 8-12 tracks of VST audio....(with a few glitches here and there)
Ok....... so.... if a few audio tracks are ok for you to add to your audio samples, and you're happy with 2 audio outs, then a lower power pc, with the terratec card will give you 2 audio outs, and also outs for your samples... 4 in total... these can be blended with your external midi device audio outs on a small 8 or 10 channel mixer such as a Soundcraft Folio or whatever....for this, an older software such as cakewalk Pro Audio V5 will do the job....
either way...... Ram etc has started to go up in price again, due to the far east financial fiasco... so you can blame the chinese for that...... I can get an AMD 200 with 64 mb, and about 4 gb drive for around 650 (uk sterling) without monitor.... but where you are it's maybe more ?... i dunno...
if you then add the terratec, you'll have a sampler too and a synth.....
so it's your call...... a cheaper pc, with only 2 audio outs + the sampler outputs, with mixing for fx done outside the pc...... or a faster pc with internal Fx processing.......
bear in mind, there's gonna be a small price drop in intel chips around the end of January, with most of the lower power MMX chips discontinued in march..... at this point, there'll be another Intel price drop....AMD's will probably drop abit too then....... so it may be worth holding out a bit..... however, No-one can predict what will happen in the pacific basin, and ram and other hardware prices may be driven up nullifying any chip price drops...... I dunno ?.....
but... that is basically your options...... the Terratec will be about 400 - 500 in dollars or Uk sterling depending on dealer...... the pc ?...... dunno how cheap you get them, but to go for the VST or Cake-6 package, maybe you should increase your budget to about 1000......
but....... about 8 virtual audio tracks, with 2 physical outputs is fine for alot of dance stuff, and adding the sample outs to this, gives alot of power, if this is ok, then even an older P120 will do it ok.....remember, the sampler is triggered from midi notes, and these place little strain on the pC CPU & ram..... so the sampler card will deliver lots of audio up to it's ram limit, regardless of your pc power.....
the terratec... or whatever soundcard you get, will output your midi data to your external synths, drum boxes, modules etc... no need for a seperate midi card..... the terratec has 2 midi outs... each handling a full 16 channels.....
lastly, all sequencers take time to learn...... a s/ware sequencer is no harder or easier than a hardware one........ just learn it.....
Message 5/13 15-Jan-98 @ 08:12 PM - RE: Tedious Computer Questions
Beautiful, guys!!!! Thank you *very* much for the help.
----
Brad
----
Brad
Message 6/13 16-Jan-98 @ 12:48 AM - RE: Tedious Computer Questions
much gratitude to kilo who typed out this reply over and over to mine, brad's and countless other's similar questions about starter setups etc. you're really helpful man, take a bow!
Message 7/13 16-Jan-98 @ 07:44 AM - RE: Tedious Computer Questions
No shit.......I just can't seem to give enough props to Kilo and his crew. Well done, fellas!
-----
Brad
-----
Brad
Message 8/13 21-Jan-98 @ 02:17 PM - RE: Tedious Computer Questions
Yes well done Kilo great advice. I just wanted to add that VST will only run on intel chips. I have a cirix chip and it will not work. Therefore I am buying a new computer. Kilo are you sure VST will run on the AMD chip?
Message 9/13 21-Jan-98 @ 04:59 PM - RE: Tedious Computer Questions
yup..... 100%...... but hell, i cant guarantee your system, as there is massive discrepancies between systems spec's and realised tracks.... but yes, a mate of mine in germany has 8 tracks no problem with an AMD 200..... he's using a quantum drive (eide) and a Mystique video card.... If you need the motherboard, I can get the model and make....
another mate in Brixton has an AMD 200 (i got it for him actually)... it didnt work too good, he had a built in video controller on the m'board.. which was using 4 mb of the system ram....(out of 48 mb)...... soona s he upgraded to a dedicated video card all was ok....but he gets less tracks that the other guy.....
hMy mate in Dusseldorf does get problems from time to time, ,,,,,, there is still the odd glitch, but that's Cubase on the Pc for ya !!!
another mate in Brixton has an AMD 200 (i got it for him actually)... it didnt work too good, he had a built in video controller on the m'board.. which was using 4 mb of the system ram....(out of 48 mb)...... soona s he upgraded to a dedicated video card all was ok....but he gets less tracks that the other guy.....
hMy mate in Dusseldorf does get problems from time to time, ,,,,,, there is still the odd glitch, but that's Cubase on the Pc for ya !!!
Message 10/13 21-Jan-98 @ 08:04 PM - RE: Tedious Computer Questions
ive got a cyrix mmx200 and vst and it works fine on mine??!!!? And a tx board, whats this biz about the memory over 64mb??
Message 11/13 22-Jan-98 @ 02:24 PM - RE: Tedious Computer Questions
TX set boards actually slow the pc down if you use above 64mb.....so i heard from our supplier....
Message 12/13 23-Jan-98 @ 12:22 PM - RE: Tedious Computer Questions
Ive checked everywhere on that theory kilo, and no-one can confirm this, ive got a TX board with 64 smegs of ram, i`m looking to throw a few more chunks in so, i`ll carry on finding out.
Message 13/13 26-Jan-98 @ 09:49 AM - RE: Tedious Computer Questions
well, I got that from the horses mouth........ apparently it's a fact.....odd as it seems
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