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Forums - The lounge
Subject: guns
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ... 15
Original Message Date: 17-Oct-02 @ 04:59 AM - guns
Just saw a trailer for Michael Moore's new movie "Bowling for Columbine." It's all about guns in America and it got me thinking. Why are guns such a problem in America? How 'sacred' is the second amendment?
Personally, I don't think guns serve any purpose but to kill. You can target shoot without lethal potential and you can kill animals without firepower. I don't like the government telling us what we can and cannot own, but I really don't see the need for guns in any society.
I'm curious what you guys think. Do we need guns? Would it make a noticeable social impact to outlaw guns? I think it may... more than waiting for the average American psyche to evolve.
Quoting Linda Richomond, "Twalk amongst yahselves"
I love the smell of stirred shit.
psylichon
Personally, I don't think guns serve any purpose but to kill. You can target shoot without lethal potential and you can kill animals without firepower. I don't like the government telling us what we can and cannot own, but I really don't see the need for guns in any society.
I'm curious what you guys think. Do we need guns? Would it make a noticeable social impact to outlaw guns? I think it may... more than waiting for the average American psyche to evolve.
Quoting Linda Richomond, "Twalk amongst yahselves"
I love the smell of stirred shit.
psylichon
Message 61/147 20-Oct-02 @ 07:17 AM - RE: guns
Psil,
I'm in Cali now, and no guns of mine are here. Mine are locked in a safe, and well looked after, however, back in the day, I tell you no lie when I say that under my left arm was a pistol, under my right leg a twelve-guage, at arms lenth was my rifle, and my knife was under my pillow. I lived in crack central of my city, cuz I could afford no more rent, and more than one crack-head was sent back out of my window by the sound of the pump of my 12 before anybody could be hurt or anything stolen.
I won't go into the rest of it from that era , as that should at least give you some idea of how crazy things can get and have gotten. You won't "get it" and apparently neither will I by your reckoning, so there we stand, but do not ever attempt to disarm me, or I will do my utmost to dis-life you.
Some say live by the sword, die by the sword, but I doubt any of those folks ever had to pick the glass out of their parent's head, from some rogue wacko shooter who just decided to take a pot shot at somebody just minding their own business in their own living room, and got lucky enough to miss. I did, and my father still has the scars to prove it.
That's not to mention the rest of my family members who got missed by inches from flying pellets. Guess what? That wacko didn't own or use a legally purchased or registered weapon.
So much for your fucking gun control.
Steve,
I can vouch for the stupidity of some gun users, and the shamefulness of sport hunting, and am in total agreeance that these and countless other ignorant acts are WRONG, so wrong that the wrong doers should have their wrongness turned on them in the hopes of seeing the errors of their ways.
I'm not about to debate this, because in those cases you are right. I think irresponsible use of firearms and other potentially lethal devices including automobiles is an absolute atrocity, and should certainly be viewed with disdain, but the reality is that more people die every year in auto mishaps than shootings (aside from military actions, which are in fact supposed to be carried out by trained personnel).
Cars cause a million times the pollution that firearms do in our world, but do you see anybody at all lobbying to stop car use entirely? Damn few bicyling enthusiasts maybe, and wait until they need an ambulance...but apart from them? I don't and I try to stay pretty well on top of that stuff believe it or not. Nethanol, SVO, and Hydrogen are the next logical steps, but more on that another time.
Influx,
If I'm coming off like I'm on a high horse here, it's because in this case, bro, I know this stuff like most humans should not EVER have to. It also stems from the fact that knowing this and seeing others' responses and expressions, I'm absolutely appalled by some of the ideas and naivete. In this case, I'm even offended, as we're talking about shit that has DEEP effects on peoples lives and the future of all living things as we know it.
We're not talking about parking tickets. We're talking about the right to defend our very lives, and to take it from others that are enlslaving or diminishing, or trying to end ours. This isn't some sort of lightweight shit dude. Get it straight!!!! This is the stuff that nations are based on, and makes or breaks entire cultures, civilizations, histories, races, and even species.
Look at the history of the Americas. It's not all proud to say the least, in fact in most cases it's downright shameful, but you cannot simply turn your noses up and discount the importance of the roles that firearms have played in the establishment and maintainence of what has become our culture, heritage, and our legacy.
We have everything in our lives because of the gun. We eat because of the gun, we have our homes because of it. We do not live in THX1138's(correct?) world because of it, nor in Orwell's 1984 (although we may if we give up our rights any further). I've said enough on this for now. The fact that many don't see this or choose to ignore it, I find disappointing.
All,
I'm not at all for senseless violence, so please don't make that mistake and piss me off by branding me as ignorant or promoting irresponsibility for one's actions. That shit is deplorable, but to try to pull the teeth of all law abiders in the hopes of weeding out the irresponsible is fucking retarded because it doesn't work, and just makes things worse, and trying to encourage such stupidity just makes me think thoughts of hatred, anger and resentment towards those so inclined. Strange as it may sound, and I know you can't see it for all of your benign intentions, you as humans are the problems, not the guns.
People are the problem. Ignorance is the problem. Lack of responsibility and education are the problems. Lack of information is the problem. The tools are not the problem. Those of you that can't get it through your thick fucking heads and accept the FACT that people are the problem, and just want to band-aid real problems in our society and species by trying to legislate perfection through weakening our abilities to preserve our own lives because you think you know what's best for everyone need to pull your heads out of each others asses and wake up.
You have no right to tell others that they cannot possibly be responsible for their own actions. Just the opposite. You have the duty to teach them responsibility and educate them, and then let them choose their paths and deal with the consequences of their actions, and if they perform actions that violate the sanctity and safety of others then punish them severely and try to rehabilitate them as fully as possible, but don't punish and limit them before they've done wrong. That's what a fucking lame parent does to an unwanted, and unloved child.
As sentient and self-aware beings we have a duty to look after each other and the rest of the planet. Whatever religious text you follow if any should say something to the effect that we are here as the earth's stewards.
That should not be translated as 'exploiters', but 'keepers and maintainers in trust of all life'. If you feel otherwise, as in that 'we are here to rule over, and drive into utter submission or extinction all forms of life in the interest of the profit and comfort of a few humans', then maybe conversation is pointless, and you need to not have the gun, because you are obviously not worthy of the privelage and responsibilities of dominion over life and death of others.
I AM my brother's keeper, and for some maybe a guide, but master of nobody aside from myself (and I'm still trying to master all of who and what I am).
Does this sound so high on the horse or unreasonable?
Ape
I'm in Cali now, and no guns of mine are here. Mine are locked in a safe, and well looked after, however, back in the day, I tell you no lie when I say that under my left arm was a pistol, under my right leg a twelve-guage, at arms lenth was my rifle, and my knife was under my pillow. I lived in crack central of my city, cuz I could afford no more rent, and more than one crack-head was sent back out of my window by the sound of the pump of my 12 before anybody could be hurt or anything stolen.
I won't go into the rest of it from that era , as that should at least give you some idea of how crazy things can get and have gotten. You won't "get it" and apparently neither will I by your reckoning, so there we stand, but do not ever attempt to disarm me, or I will do my utmost to dis-life you.
Some say live by the sword, die by the sword, but I doubt any of those folks ever had to pick the glass out of their parent's head, from some rogue wacko shooter who just decided to take a pot shot at somebody just minding their own business in their own living room, and got lucky enough to miss. I did, and my father still has the scars to prove it.
That's not to mention the rest of my family members who got missed by inches from flying pellets. Guess what? That wacko didn't own or use a legally purchased or registered weapon.
So much for your fucking gun control.
Steve,
I can vouch for the stupidity of some gun users, and the shamefulness of sport hunting, and am in total agreeance that these and countless other ignorant acts are WRONG, so wrong that the wrong doers should have their wrongness turned on them in the hopes of seeing the errors of their ways.
I'm not about to debate this, because in those cases you are right. I think irresponsible use of firearms and other potentially lethal devices including automobiles is an absolute atrocity, and should certainly be viewed with disdain, but the reality is that more people die every year in auto mishaps than shootings (aside from military actions, which are in fact supposed to be carried out by trained personnel).
Cars cause a million times the pollution that firearms do in our world, but do you see anybody at all lobbying to stop car use entirely? Damn few bicyling enthusiasts maybe, and wait until they need an ambulance...but apart from them? I don't and I try to stay pretty well on top of that stuff believe it or not. Nethanol, SVO, and Hydrogen are the next logical steps, but more on that another time.
Influx,
If I'm coming off like I'm on a high horse here, it's because in this case, bro, I know this stuff like most humans should not EVER have to. It also stems from the fact that knowing this and seeing others' responses and expressions, I'm absolutely appalled by some of the ideas and naivete. In this case, I'm even offended, as we're talking about shit that has DEEP effects on peoples lives and the future of all living things as we know it.
We're not talking about parking tickets. We're talking about the right to defend our very lives, and to take it from others that are enlslaving or diminishing, or trying to end ours. This isn't some sort of lightweight shit dude. Get it straight!!!! This is the stuff that nations are based on, and makes or breaks entire cultures, civilizations, histories, races, and even species.
Look at the history of the Americas. It's not all proud to say the least, in fact in most cases it's downright shameful, but you cannot simply turn your noses up and discount the importance of the roles that firearms have played in the establishment and maintainence of what has become our culture, heritage, and our legacy.
We have everything in our lives because of the gun. We eat because of the gun, we have our homes because of it. We do not live in THX1138's(correct?) world because of it, nor in Orwell's 1984 (although we may if we give up our rights any further). I've said enough on this for now. The fact that many don't see this or choose to ignore it, I find disappointing.
All,
I'm not at all for senseless violence, so please don't make that mistake and piss me off by branding me as ignorant or promoting irresponsibility for one's actions. That shit is deplorable, but to try to pull the teeth of all law abiders in the hopes of weeding out the irresponsible is fucking retarded because it doesn't work, and just makes things worse, and trying to encourage such stupidity just makes me think thoughts of hatred, anger and resentment towards those so inclined. Strange as it may sound, and I know you can't see it for all of your benign intentions, you as humans are the problems, not the guns.
People are the problem. Ignorance is the problem. Lack of responsibility and education are the problems. Lack of information is the problem. The tools are not the problem. Those of you that can't get it through your thick fucking heads and accept the FACT that people are the problem, and just want to band-aid real problems in our society and species by trying to legislate perfection through weakening our abilities to preserve our own lives because you think you know what's best for everyone need to pull your heads out of each others asses and wake up.
You have no right to tell others that they cannot possibly be responsible for their own actions. Just the opposite. You have the duty to teach them responsibility and educate them, and then let them choose their paths and deal with the consequences of their actions, and if they perform actions that violate the sanctity and safety of others then punish them severely and try to rehabilitate them as fully as possible, but don't punish and limit them before they've done wrong. That's what a fucking lame parent does to an unwanted, and unloved child.
As sentient and self-aware beings we have a duty to look after each other and the rest of the planet. Whatever religious text you follow if any should say something to the effect that we are here as the earth's stewards.
That should not be translated as 'exploiters', but 'keepers and maintainers in trust of all life'. If you feel otherwise, as in that 'we are here to rule over, and drive into utter submission or extinction all forms of life in the interest of the profit and comfort of a few humans', then maybe conversation is pointless, and you need to not have the gun, because you are obviously not worthy of the privelage and responsibilities of dominion over life and death of others.
I AM my brother's keeper, and for some maybe a guide, but master of nobody aside from myself (and I'm still trying to master all of who and what I am).
Does this sound so high on the horse or unreasonable?
Ape
Message 62/147 20-Oct-02 @ 10:11 AM - RE: guns
Zazza
Posts: 1502
Link?: No link
File?: No file
pongoid, doesn't it occur to you that the rampant gun-toting culture has CAUSED the ridiculous situation that americans find themselves in, where normal citizens need to be armed to the teeth to protect their lives and property. Please explain why the murder rate is so unbelievably high in the states sompared to say the UK?
And the white van thing, yeah, THAT white van wasn't the right one, but would every gun carrying citizen be kept up to date with the latest information or would more innocent people die in the crossfire?
Meanwhile US movies and music export gun culture across the world.
Do you seriously think that an armed citizen/militia could go up against the US army/National Guard? Tanks, missiles etc etc... good luck. I suggest you start the revolution now.
But I guess there are so many guns out there in the US it's all too late. 65 million handguns
in the US. So it's probably such a gun saturated culture that it would take a generation or two for gun laws to have any discernible effect. Well, you made your bed so I guess you have to lie in it. I don't envy you.
And the white van thing, yeah, THAT white van wasn't the right one, but would every gun carrying citizen be kept up to date with the latest information or would more innocent people die in the crossfire?
Meanwhile US movies and music export gun culture across the world.
Do you seriously think that an armed citizen/militia could go up against the US army/National Guard? Tanks, missiles etc etc... good luck. I suggest you start the revolution now.
But I guess there are so many guns out there in the US it's all too late. 65 million handguns
in the US. So it's probably such a gun saturated culture that it would take a generation or two for gun laws to have any discernible effect. Well, you made your bed so I guess you have to lie in it. I don't envy you.
Message 63/147 20-Oct-02 @ 10:13 AM Edit: 20-Oct-02 | 08:46 PM - RE: guns
nope. not in the slightest. Somehow you missed my point, holmes
its the name calling. you throw the word fools around, and many other names...insinuating that, again, it's you and you alone who has a handle on things.
sometimes its almost akin to religious zealotry, as if NO ONE else could even possibly grasp the weight of our current state of affairs?
personally, I can't. I will admit that. I don't claim to understand anything really, but for you to sit there and call me an idiot or fool (because yes, I am one of the "them" that you so clearly despise) is just...incredibly offensive
its the name calling. you throw the word fools around, and many other names...insinuating that, again, it's you and you alone who has a handle on things.
sometimes its almost akin to religious zealotry, as if NO ONE else could even possibly grasp the weight of our current state of affairs?
personally, I can't. I will admit that. I don't claim to understand anything really, but for you to sit there and call me an idiot or fool (because yes, I am one of the "them" that you so clearly despise) is just...incredibly offensive
Message 64/147 20-Oct-02 @ 11:25 PM - RE: guns
Ape-
I understand where you're coming from. Or should I say I "understand" (we both know what I mean). I've heard stories like yours from various people throughout my life, and while I can't really relate I can at least use it as a frame of reference so I recognize how wonderful and lucky my life has been so far.
I won't try to discredit any of your sentiments despite the fact that I can't agree with them. I just wonder if you've ever considered how things could have been. What if those things never happened to you? If everything was different... if your life was simpler and less dramatic, would you still hold the same affinity toward guns simply because of governmental threat? Would guns be the immediate solution to security to they are to you now?
See, it's not that I don't understand that people live in conditions where guns are necessary. I just like to try and get down to the philosophical and archtypeal crux of society and it seems that, logically, guns don't really promote anything but death in any society. Once you start with guns, it may become increasingly difficult to stop the trend but that doesn't mean it's not a noble effort to try.
I really think when it comes down to it, guns do no good for a society. They may "work" for some people on a case-by-case basis, but as far as the social organism is concerned they are only an infected lesion that spreads to the bloodstream of a society.
I don't think guns are necessary just to control our governemtn. I may be naive, but I don't see American society in this day and age just laying down to an oppressive government, guns or not. Fuck what anyone says, we're smarter than that. We don't show it on a regular basis, but Americans if nothing else are cynical and will not take shit for long if it affects life and liberty. There are a lot of fuckups in the governemt, but I have faith that there are enough people that actually care about the nation and the planet to stop those people from going too far.
Please please please forgive me if I'm way crossing the line here (I know I sound like I'm psychoanalyzing, but I'm really just conjecturing), but in some way I think you are proud of your past. If for no other reason than the experience it gave you. And though you may wish no one experiences your horrors, I'll bet you're proud that you got through it and have great faith in the person they made you. More power, man, but you have to recognize that yours isn't the only way. And it may not be the "right" way. If you respect life like I think you do I think you can recognize that ideally, guns shouldn't exist.
Now it's not an ideal world but for all the ranting we do to try and make it so I can't believe we can't all agree that guns are a bad situation that never should have been. I'll stop for now...
psylichon
I understand where you're coming from. Or should I say I "understand" (we both know what I mean). I've heard stories like yours from various people throughout my life, and while I can't really relate I can at least use it as a frame of reference so I recognize how wonderful and lucky my life has been so far.
I won't try to discredit any of your sentiments despite the fact that I can't agree with them. I just wonder if you've ever considered how things could have been. What if those things never happened to you? If everything was different... if your life was simpler and less dramatic, would you still hold the same affinity toward guns simply because of governmental threat? Would guns be the immediate solution to security to they are to you now?
See, it's not that I don't understand that people live in conditions where guns are necessary. I just like to try and get down to the philosophical and archtypeal crux of society and it seems that, logically, guns don't really promote anything but death in any society. Once you start with guns, it may become increasingly difficult to stop the trend but that doesn't mean it's not a noble effort to try.
I really think when it comes down to it, guns do no good for a society. They may "work" for some people on a case-by-case basis, but as far as the social organism is concerned they are only an infected lesion that spreads to the bloodstream of a society.
I don't think guns are necessary just to control our governemtn. I may be naive, but I don't see American society in this day and age just laying down to an oppressive government, guns or not. Fuck what anyone says, we're smarter than that. We don't show it on a regular basis, but Americans if nothing else are cynical and will not take shit for long if it affects life and liberty. There are a lot of fuckups in the governemt, but I have faith that there are enough people that actually care about the nation and the planet to stop those people from going too far.
Please please please forgive me if I'm way crossing the line here (I know I sound like I'm psychoanalyzing, but I'm really just conjecturing), but in some way I think you are proud of your past. If for no other reason than the experience it gave you. And though you may wish no one experiences your horrors, I'll bet you're proud that you got through it and have great faith in the person they made you. More power, man, but you have to recognize that yours isn't the only way. And it may not be the "right" way. If you respect life like I think you do I think you can recognize that ideally, guns shouldn't exist.
Now it's not an ideal world but for all the ranting we do to try and make it so I can't believe we can't all agree that guns are a bad situation that never should have been. I'll stop for now...
psylichon
Message 65/147 21-Oct-02 @ 12:54 AM - RE: guns
Look, what the fuck does not sink in? Why is it so fucking hard for the weak of mind and soul to accept their own weakness, and take the goddamn blame for being the fault here? A TOOL DOES NOHING WITH NO HAND TO WIELD IT. Some of you are such shitheads, ready to point the finger at anything but the root of the problem...yourselves. Yes there are irresponsible people all over, but how many more people are dying EVERY DAY from auto accidents?
In one walk today I saw more irresponsible drivers in the span of twenty minutes, almost killing themselves and others around them than all of the foolish and irresponsible use of firearms I've seen in person in my entire life, no exaggeration. However that's commonplace, so we'll turn our heads the other way, and not worry about it. How many die every day in this country from auto accidents? Gun accidents and intentional shootings combined? Then what are you talking about gun bans for? Cars are many times more dangerous than guns. If I shoot you in the leg you hurt, no two ways about it. If I drive into your leg with a car, you go flying and are much more likely to die. So what are you even talking about guns for? Because the media fuckheads are blowing some pot shot dickhead out of proportion? Becasue the media glamorizes and sensationalizes irresponsibility with potentially lethal devices, and techniques? Guns don't make movies. Guns don't operate themselves.
And who the fuck are any of you to tell me I'm wrong for going out target shooting at a range? Do I tell you you're wrong for going running, or playing video games or rock climbing, or skateboarding, or doing whatever it is you like to do to relax? What about if it was knife throwing, or archery, or demolition? Would it matter? Think about that before you answer it.
Zazza, you insult me. Don't. You obviously are not putting this into perspective and just want to try to shove my statements up my ass because you do not agree, so let me return the hostility by and asking you with those notions of my ignorance and lunacy, and your foolish suggestions that I try to perform some sorry and pointlessly defiant act, and take a flying fuck at the moon. Don't ever try to paint me as stupid. I'll not take your shit or anybody else's.
Here's a thought that occurred this morning:
Ghandi.
Was he a great man? Did his policy of peaceful resistance get his people killed? How many less would have died if they'd taken up arms? How many "surplus " people did it take to prove his point? And what was that point? "I can keep throwing my people to agonizing and painful unnarmed pointless needless deaths until you look like the asshole for counterring their resistance?" How many of those people who stood up and died helplessly do any of you know the names of?
I mean you can talk all the ideology you want, but the reality is that might makes right, be it might of the muscle, or technology or the mind itself. That's nature, like it or not.
As far as my life goes, I can't imagine how things would have been different, you're talking about chaos. All of those events make me who I am. You're asking "What if you weren't you? Who would you be?" How the fuck do you answer that?
Making guns illegal does not make them disappear. It just makes the law abider's life more dangerous, and helpless. It's too late for "what if"s. It's time for "What now"s.
Ape
In one walk today I saw more irresponsible drivers in the span of twenty minutes, almost killing themselves and others around them than all of the foolish and irresponsible use of firearms I've seen in person in my entire life, no exaggeration. However that's commonplace, so we'll turn our heads the other way, and not worry about it. How many die every day in this country from auto accidents? Gun accidents and intentional shootings combined? Then what are you talking about gun bans for? Cars are many times more dangerous than guns. If I shoot you in the leg you hurt, no two ways about it. If I drive into your leg with a car, you go flying and are much more likely to die. So what are you even talking about guns for? Because the media fuckheads are blowing some pot shot dickhead out of proportion? Becasue the media glamorizes and sensationalizes irresponsibility with potentially lethal devices, and techniques? Guns don't make movies. Guns don't operate themselves.
And who the fuck are any of you to tell me I'm wrong for going out target shooting at a range? Do I tell you you're wrong for going running, or playing video games or rock climbing, or skateboarding, or doing whatever it is you like to do to relax? What about if it was knife throwing, or archery, or demolition? Would it matter? Think about that before you answer it.
Zazza, you insult me. Don't. You obviously are not putting this into perspective and just want to try to shove my statements up my ass because you do not agree, so let me return the hostility by and asking you with those notions of my ignorance and lunacy, and your foolish suggestions that I try to perform some sorry and pointlessly defiant act, and take a flying fuck at the moon. Don't ever try to paint me as stupid. I'll not take your shit or anybody else's.
Here's a thought that occurred this morning:
Ghandi.
Was he a great man? Did his policy of peaceful resistance get his people killed? How many less would have died if they'd taken up arms? How many "surplus " people did it take to prove his point? And what was that point? "I can keep throwing my people to agonizing and painful unnarmed pointless needless deaths until you look like the asshole for counterring their resistance?" How many of those people who stood up and died helplessly do any of you know the names of?
I mean you can talk all the ideology you want, but the reality is that might makes right, be it might of the muscle, or technology or the mind itself. That's nature, like it or not.
As far as my life goes, I can't imagine how things would have been different, you're talking about chaos. All of those events make me who I am. You're asking "What if you weren't you? Who would you be?" How the fuck do you answer that?
Making guns illegal does not make them disappear. It just makes the law abider's life more dangerous, and helpless. It's too late for "what if"s. It's time for "What now"s.
Ape
Message 66/147 21-Oct-02 @ 01:49 AM - RE: guns
As for the militia vs. technology, ever heard of
improvised munitions?You know bombs and
shit.As far as DC being unarmed,that's just
the nice areas.DC is definitely armed to the
teeth.I'd like to see the "sniper" go over to the
PJs and try that shit.That would be funny as
hell.IMHO the tarot card is a ruse by the
police.I noticed in one of the reports a counter
terrorist task force jacket on one of the
piggys.Just like the "random" shooting by the
Egyptian at the LAX El Al ticket counter.Fact is
our govt. can attempt to control us but there's
no way they can protect us from god loving
gunmen.Especially christians.Just wait a few
more years and they'll start suicide bombing
i'm sure of it.My bet's on the southern
baptists.Nice thing about explosives is if they
aren't assembled you can keep them handy
legally.Just in case.Gun control is the biggest
joke.You could easily get a slingshot and take
two pieces of fishing lead, some fishing line
and make one hell of a bone slicing mini
bolo.You can get all that from Wal
Mart.Besides all you need if you had an
enemy with some missiles is to catch em
slippin and then you've got missiles.Besides
in a combat situation every dead guy is more
hardware for you.The coolest thing about DC
being "unarmed" is the prices you can get for
even a Lorcin .380.In America the people who
want guns will always be able to obtain them
easily.Since my conviction I'm not able to get a
gun,yeah right.Just watch the news and keep
telling yourself it's the truth.
H
improvised munitions?You know bombs and
shit.As far as DC being unarmed,that's just
the nice areas.DC is definitely armed to the
teeth.I'd like to see the "sniper" go over to the
PJs and try that shit.That would be funny as
hell.IMHO the tarot card is a ruse by the
police.I noticed in one of the reports a counter
terrorist task force jacket on one of the
piggys.Just like the "random" shooting by the
Egyptian at the LAX El Al ticket counter.Fact is
our govt. can attempt to control us but there's
no way they can protect us from god loving
gunmen.Especially christians.Just wait a few
more years and they'll start suicide bombing
i'm sure of it.My bet's on the southern
baptists.Nice thing about explosives is if they
aren't assembled you can keep them handy
legally.Just in case.Gun control is the biggest
joke.You could easily get a slingshot and take
two pieces of fishing lead, some fishing line
and make one hell of a bone slicing mini
bolo.You can get all that from Wal
Mart.Besides all you need if you had an
enemy with some missiles is to catch em
slippin and then you've got missiles.Besides
in a combat situation every dead guy is more
hardware for you.The coolest thing about DC
being "unarmed" is the prices you can get for
even a Lorcin .380.In America the people who
want guns will always be able to obtain them
easily.Since my conviction I'm not able to get a
gun,yeah right.Just watch the news and keep
telling yourself it's the truth.
H
Message 67/147 21-Oct-02 @ 03:08 AM - RE: guns
Luciferenda
Posts: 15
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Okay, I've been lurking on this subject long enough, and as a frame of reference for those who think that the only people who are pro-firearms are the chaotic, dramtic, angry people, well, you are far from the truth. Admittedly my life hasn't had half the frightening experiences that others have shared, nonetheless I am all for arming ourselves. But what is so incredibly irritating is the ignorance that most of our society carries against guns. Most of it, yes is of course the glamour and bullshit of our ever so clever media. Showing you gun accidents and children dying as a result of having a weapon. It's straight up bullshit. The problem with firearms is the fact that alot of idiots aren't trained or use the properly and that's how accidents happen. People not taking the precautions....yes, the personal responsiblity factor.
I was raised by a member of the NRA, and a Hunter Safety Instructor. By age 12 I had my hunting license, (and no not trophy game hunting). By age 16 my brother and I received our first rifle. At that point I had been to numerous target practices. Like others I enjoy the hell outta those target shootings. I was taught safety, how to survive with one, how to protect myself with one and taught to respect it, and to take owning a weapon seriously. If half the people out there treated their firearms properly than the rest of us wouldn't have to pay for their idiocy.
I was never taught to go around showing our metal, or talking about our metal or using it as a tool of force. But I'll tell you one thing, if I ever found someone with their barrell placed at my sister's head, and I had the chance, you can be sure I'd blow him away....no hesitation. The same way I was ready to do it when some fucking prick followed my mother home from work late one night, brandishing HIS weapon. You know where I was? On the second story roof with the pistol in my hand, lying on my tummy watching the perimeter of my house. No fucking lie. Protecting my mom until my dad could get home. Isolated incident, but it was my only form of defense at the time, and thank god I knew how to use it. It's the ones that don't, that fuck everything up for everyone else, that give others this wacky idea that firearms are bad when they are not, but instead a tool, just like any other weapon.
It's been said here already, guns don't kill, people kill. It's true, and when you haven't lived in an environment that relies on them or haven't ever experienced what it's like to HAVE to protect someone, then you'll never really understand. People are killed by far greater means than by a firearm....you just don't hear about it.
The reality of this world is such that weapons are a tool for survival...beit hunting for food, protecting your own or protecting yourself. The wise are the ones who don't go out and act irresponsible with them. I can't get over all the stereotypes that are associated with firearm owners. Absolutely amazing. People get educated will ya?
Never will I, nor my family lay ours down as long as others our protecting themselves the same way we are. I think the cowboys and indians had the right idea.
Oh yes, and FYI, all the firearms my father has owned and kept in his house, and the ones my mother owns and siblings own...guess what? NOT ONE ACCIDENT. And that is not by chance or any form of luck. That is due to responsibility, and when the line is drawn I'll be over here with mine.
I was raised by a member of the NRA, and a Hunter Safety Instructor. By age 12 I had my hunting license, (and no not trophy game hunting). By age 16 my brother and I received our first rifle. At that point I had been to numerous target practices. Like others I enjoy the hell outta those target shootings. I was taught safety, how to survive with one, how to protect myself with one and taught to respect it, and to take owning a weapon seriously. If half the people out there treated their firearms properly than the rest of us wouldn't have to pay for their idiocy.
I was never taught to go around showing our metal, or talking about our metal or using it as a tool of force. But I'll tell you one thing, if I ever found someone with their barrell placed at my sister's head, and I had the chance, you can be sure I'd blow him away....no hesitation. The same way I was ready to do it when some fucking prick followed my mother home from work late one night, brandishing HIS weapon. You know where I was? On the second story roof with the pistol in my hand, lying on my tummy watching the perimeter of my house. No fucking lie. Protecting my mom until my dad could get home. Isolated incident, but it was my only form of defense at the time, and thank god I knew how to use it. It's the ones that don't, that fuck everything up for everyone else, that give others this wacky idea that firearms are bad when they are not, but instead a tool, just like any other weapon.
It's been said here already, guns don't kill, people kill. It's true, and when you haven't lived in an environment that relies on them or haven't ever experienced what it's like to HAVE to protect someone, then you'll never really understand. People are killed by far greater means than by a firearm....you just don't hear about it.
The reality of this world is such that weapons are a tool for survival...beit hunting for food, protecting your own or protecting yourself. The wise are the ones who don't go out and act irresponsible with them. I can't get over all the stereotypes that are associated with firearm owners. Absolutely amazing. People get educated will ya?
Never will I, nor my family lay ours down as long as others our protecting themselves the same way we are. I think the cowboys and indians had the right idea.
Oh yes, and FYI, all the firearms my father has owned and kept in his house, and the ones my mother owns and siblings own...guess what? NOT ONE ACCIDENT. And that is not by chance or any form of luck. That is due to responsibility, and when the line is drawn I'll be over here with mine.
Message 68/147 21-Oct-02 @ 03:14 AM - RE: guns
well said.
Pongoids points are valid too...
some of the other stuff..the anti-gun stuff...based too much on idealistic "what ifs"
if EVERY SINGLE weapon on the entire planet was vaporized...including the cops, the military, everything...then maybe it might be good?
but until then all this crap talk about making them illegal is just rhetoric.
I dont own any weapons, as I live in a place where I dont need em right now...but thats gonna change and odds are i will go out, get a license (which will include training time) and no doubt get me one
the world is a fucked up place, and if someone expects me to lay down and take it when someone comes to me...forget that shit.
pongoid..my only beef is with the attitude you put forward, NOT your argument. On that part I agree with you wholeheartedly
Pongoids points are valid too...
some of the other stuff..the anti-gun stuff...based too much on idealistic "what ifs"
if EVERY SINGLE weapon on the entire planet was vaporized...including the cops, the military, everything...then maybe it might be good?
but until then all this crap talk about making them illegal is just rhetoric.
I dont own any weapons, as I live in a place where I dont need em right now...but thats gonna change and odds are i will go out, get a license (which will include training time) and no doubt get me one
the world is a fucked up place, and if someone expects me to lay down and take it when someone comes to me...forget that shit.
pongoid..my only beef is with the attitude you put forward, NOT your argument. On that part I agree with you wholeheartedly
Message 69/147 21-Oct-02 @ 03:14 AM - RE: guns
heh. "guns dont kill people, people kill people"
so lets eliminate PEOPLE then!
so lets eliminate PEOPLE then!
Message 70/147 21-Oct-02 @ 03:31 AM - RE: guns
Luciferenda
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Educate not eliminate. :o)
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