Forums - Live / PA / gigging
Subject: Live Kit
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Original Message 1/29 30-Mar-02 @ 11:35 PM Edit: 30-Mar-02 | 11:37 PM - Live Kit
I'm gonna list two as I have been using the "505" setup for a few years, but now I've started using the RS7000 as the brain for a few shows... It's also worth mentioning that I DO NOT try to recreate studio tracks for live play...
MC505 as brain/sequencer, using all six outputs (synth sounds and FX on stereo out mains, Bass Drum on one out, Hats on one out, Snares on one out, and Toms and other percussion on the last output), Dark Star or AN1x for basses, Virus for other synth sounds, SP505 for samples, all ran into a Mackie CFX12. There's a Lexicon MPX100 for delays strapped across the FX send/returns of the Mackie. I run a Presonus ACP88 as insert compression on the BD, SD, Toms, Bass, and as a limiter on the Virus and on the sampler. I also use a BBE462 across my main inserts. Power is conditioned with a Furnam RR-15 (the Rackrider version).
The RS7000 setup:
RS7K as brain/sequencer/sounds/sampler. Using all eight multi-outs (Mains stereo outs get synth sounds, maybe some of the samples, 1 Out for the BD, 1 for the SD, 1 for the bass, stereo outs 3&4 for hats and some percussion, 1 out for certain samples or xtra percussion). All ran through the CFX12, Lexicon MPX100 for delays on the FX send/returns of the Mackie, ACP88 strapped across the inserts of all eight multi-outs from the RS7K either for compression or limiting. BBE462 on the main inserts, and the same Furnam power conditioner.... Ocassionally, I add the Virus to this setup, or sometimes I'll run the Dark Star.
For both setups I always carry a toolbox with general bits like fuses, screwdrivers, adapters, a soldering iron, a direct box, a mic or two, spare power cords, cables, multimeter, set of headphones, and other odds and ends that might be needed.
For monitoring, it depends on the venue. Sometimes monitors are provided, sometimes I use my Mackie SRM450s plus a SRS1500 Sub, sometimes I use the "in the ear" monitors from Shure. A lot depends on the room I'm working and the size of the space I get to set up in... I have used my SRM monitors as "house sound" for a couple of small gigs and some of the private parties I've played, so they can work as a "main PA" in a pinch.
How bout the rest of you lot...?
Message 2/29 31-Mar-02 @ 12:36 AM - RE: Live Kit
but it looks a bit like this:
RS7000, ES1, Mackie1402, Virus and an as yet undefined controller. RNC on the main buss and maybe an FX box or two...
planning on doing all my sounds on the PC, and getting them sounding as tip top as possible, then dumping everything over to the RS and resequencing from there
I dont plan on accurately recreating my studio tracks either, because its quite lame really...
but to be honest? I am only in the envisioning stages, and it usually happens about 2:30, when Im trying to go to sleep...I start thinking about it, get my brain all active, then NO FUCKING SLEEP which I hate...
Message 3/29 31-Mar-02 @ 01:44 AM - RE: Live Kit
File?: No file
all of these are on seperate tracks on the sequencer for muting in/out etc.
i am also syncing a korg EA1 and an ES1, through the emu, and go back and forth (and various combinations of the lot) between the two setups.
there is an old ibanez digital delay on one of the effects sends and the whole mix runs into a compressor set to limit the peaks.
what i have been doing (because i dislike sequencing on the yamaha) is writing the parts in 8-16 bar sequences with several 1-2 bar fills in sonar and transfering them into the RM1X as midi files in pattern mode.
i set the yamaha to change patterns at the 1/16 mode.
this all works out pretty good, but one thing that bugs me is i can't set the electribes to receive just the start/stop message from the yamaha. i can't put any note data on tracks 15 and 16 of the yamaha because it triggers the sounds on the EA1 (on the electribes you have to set the 2 parts to midi channels).
i would like to be able to use those tracks to trigger samples on the emu but not send the data to the EA1.
did i miss something in the manuals?
is there a way to filter out the data as it comes through the emu?
Message 4/29 31-Mar-02 @ 12:58 PM - RE: Live Kit
So how am I doing this currently? Ooff! It's actually pretty simple: A3K with no extra outs, QRack, Xbase, and either my laptop running Cubase 2.8, or my MMT8 or both to sequence. I'm using five of the six outs of the Q, two stereo pairs, and a mono for kicks, and mono basses, the stereo outs of the A3K for most everything except kicks, some snares, and some basses, all resampled compressed. The Xbase sometimes gets the kick seperated from the snare and hats, depending on what else I'm plugging into my dinky little board: 1202vlz. All of it goes out into an RNC and soon into a T.C. 1120. I'm just using a couple of stomp boxes for effects right now, but my favorite thing is running stuff through the Q, even other instruments inside it. Yup, that's right, you can feed an audio output of the Q, through the board, and effects if you've got them in line, and back into itself, refilter it, and chuck it out of another output. Sick shit.
As for the rest, like which kind of sound is coming out of which out, that shit changes all the time. In accordance with the phase of the moon, and alignment of the stars, and what I've recently eaten, I'll pull acid lines from the sampler, kick, hats and snares from the Q, and noises and aux percs from the Xbase at times, and sometimes just straight up feedback and noise from all of it. It just depends on the mood, the track, and whatever else is influencing me, and the crowd at the time. Sometimes I'll use a bass or mic as well, but these are usually special occasions. Oop, forgot to mention the keyboard controller as well, for live lines. Flexibility is key. I really need to get more of it. I think my Yammy really cut my flexibility down in fact because of the architecture. Don't get me wrong, it's well designed, but it's nothing like an E-mu, or Ensoniq. Ensoniqs can LOAD WHILE PLAYING, so even if you have only 16 megs, you can use 8 megs per track if you want, and load the other eight at the same time. I never use that much, in fact most of the time I probably don't even use 8 megs in my whole set, but that's because it's all in the sequences, with just little bits and blurbs of sound strategicly placed.
I don't usually use sound loops, because I don't like being restricted to a certain tempo in a live setting. Some of my friends just sit at one tempo the whole set, with loops done perfectly, all individually compressed and EQ'd beforehand, and then they just sort of mix the loops as they go. I have a freind who uses an E6400, with peavy midi controller, and a laptop to sequence, an ER1, and MicroModular, but the majority of the set is just sampled loops thathe does up in Fruity, exports, touches up to his tastes in SoundForge, then exports to the sampler, sets all to the same BPM, and pops them into the different slots in multi-mode as he sees fit. He sets the sliders so that from value 0-20 he gets volume 0-127, and the rest of the slider controls the cut-off on a low pass filter on each sound. Puts it all into a mix-wizard, with an m2000, electric mistress, and some other little bits and pieces, and compresses the whole thing through a focusrite Platinum Series in the Master Inserts. He sound is very pollished, super tight and never makes a mistake. He can play no matter how wasted he is, and the crowds love his sets. He's actually a really big name here. All that aside, I feel like his sets still lack a bit of spontanaety, dude to the tempo restriction.
I also kind of detest loops, because sometimes you get the neatest stuff when you stick the 'wrong' sequence into the wrong groups of sounds. Lots to be said for serendipity, but then there's the times you fall on your ass too. I'm getting better at landing on my feet, but I still enjoy the fact that my sets at times sound just a little sloppy and human. My buddies here are all super pollished,and tight on their changes, my friend Simon's probably the best at it, but I don't hear those guys throwin out the really wierd shit, and pulling it into a groove that works.
Most of the sounds from most folks I hear here, although very well arranged and conveying a feel are VERY meat and potatoes. There are exceptions during each set, but they are a bit rare. I think it's that willingness to go out on a limb a little more, and still manage to bring it into a coherent expression that wins their respect.
It's one thing to make really messed up sounds, but it's completely another to take those noises that most folks either are afraid to make or just don't know how, and when intitially presented resemble little other than chaotic nonsense, and then as they comer together, it all takes on perspective, and you see the groove in its entirety, and it makes perfect sense, but was nothing at all like what you thought it was going to be, and that moment of realisation just tickles folks. The look as people realize where the groove actually lies is just too cool, like 'Whuh,.....ooohhhhhhh!!!!!! Damn! Hellz yeah!'. It's even better when the groove turns out to be something fat and funky to boot. Anybody can make an interesting percussion line, and then throw a 4-on-the-floor under it, and move it around a little, and that's a step in the right direction, but there are way more avenues to explore. That's part of why I take it live, anyhow. Ok, enough blither and banter. What are other folks up to?
Message 5/29 31-Mar-02 @ 08:56 PM - RE: Live Kit
so you can still drop those loops at different tempos
Message 6/29 01-Apr-02 @ 03:14 AM - RE: Live Kit
I am getting the itch to play live, but I don't know where to start. I'm considering inviting a bunch of friends over to my house and do a small show, but NONE of them are into electronic music at all, and many would be... taxed... by the experience. I don't know of any other places in the Boston area that would give a punk like me a shot. Also, the stuff that I would play live would hardly resemble anything I would do in the studio...
Were I to play live though, I would take my RM1X as the brain, my DarkStar (thru my focusrite tonefactory), XT, ESI4k, and SRV3030. An Oxygen 8 would be the controller. All thru my CFX20.
Message 7/29 01-Apr-02 @ 03:15 AM - RE: Live Kit
It sounds to me like Ape and Mindspawn gig alot, but I never know when and where. Is there any way I can find out ahead of time when and where you guys are playing? Ape - you talk a big game and I'd love to see you in action.
Message 8/29 01-Apr-02 @ 09:18 AM - RE: Live Kit
At any rate, I've been a studio hound for the last few months, an' I pretty much chill every year between December and April... just old habits I suppose... On the plus side, the stuff we did with Jan Johnston during my "studio time" is getting picked up on Perfecto, so mayhap I'll see enuff dosh to organize some freaky dark ambient gigs later this year... But since I've learned not to hold me breath about such things, I suspect I'll be ringing up some of the promoters and party people to let 'em know I'm available for whor...errr... hiring, again...
Anyway, I'll put you on me mailing list, DefZ... an' if you want to get a gig 'round here, just let me know an' we'll get you talking to the right folks.... for that matter, depending on what you'd be into sound-wise, I'd have no qualms about bringing you, or anyone else with a bit of talent and bravado up on stage wit' me... I like workin' with other folks buildin' a groove, I just dunna get the chance all that often....
Message 9/29 01-Apr-02 @ 05:13 PM - RE: Live Kit
Talk a big game? How many times have I posted dates, times and places I was playing on this site? I'd love for you to come down and check a show out. I'll let folks here know when I've got something arranged in the area. For the next month all of my shows are here in France. I should be back in the area in early summer.
As for trying to use Cubase to write live sequences? I'd let it be. You can do it in edit mode if you want, in grid, or drum, or piano roll, just set it into overdub record mode, and then quantize, but sometimes you run into stability issues. It can be done, if you're tight, but like I say, it's not the best way. I haven't tried it like this in a live setting yet, though. Maybe I should. Thanks for the stimulation.
we should jam.
Message 10/29 02-Apr-02 @ 12:21 AM - RE: Live Kit
Message 11/29 02-Apr-02 @ 03:23 AM - RE: Live Kit
I've seen a couple of postings over the years, but unfortunately I've a day job that doens't afford me the luxury of being able to go very far. If you are in the Boston neighborhood, throw me a shout and I'll do my best to make it. Might even bring some folks.
Regarding Cubase - I see where you're coming from. Making sense... but doesn't seem to flexible, though. I can see how you'd start from scratch from there.
Mindspawn - I'd like to see some more shows, and get involved. Jamming would be great - I'd like to do something small first - you know, get my feet wet first. But I'm starting to get that itch. You know, put up or shut up, I guess.
Message 12/29 02-Apr-02 @ 07:05 PM - RE: Live Kit
Usually one of us has the 'main beat' on a sampler with lots of variations and the other is free to drop in whatever pattern he feels like, as long as there isn't a crash collision on stage...
One of us plays a bass line and the rest of the song is somewhat improvised on whatever synths we happen to be playing...we sort of do a jazz like basis with somewhat structured builds and breaks, but we can change it when we want to...
We've had lots of 'accidents' (wrong patterns, synths, etc.) that turn out quite brilliantly live...in fact playing live is the basis of everything we do recorded...a lot of the pain for us is sculpting our live material into recorded work.
If anyone is interested, we have a live365 station where I've put our gig, it's alternating with a schematic set and a house set from WMC this year.
Message 13/29 03-Apr-02 @ 06:10 AM - RE: Live Kit
As an aside, I'm looking into getting a place to do a regular after hours, a hundred or so people at most, a couple times a month... if I get my shit sorted, and you get your stuff sorted, I'd be happy to let you have a go. That'd go for any DT folk who happen to be in the area.
Roshi - that's a nice, straight-forward setup. Sounds like y'all have a lot of fun doing your thing, and that's definitely one of the more important aspects of this stuff.
Message 14/29 03-Apr-02 @ 12:41 PM - RE: Live Kit
Message 15/29 03-Apr-02 @ 12:43 PM - RE: Live Kit
Message 16/29 03-Apr-02 @ 02:10 PM - RE: Live Kit
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I'm not there yet. I know I'd have my SN in tow and my controller keyboard. My computer running Sonar. I don't know how that all works out with the puter though in terms of playing live. The ER-1 for now anyway but the knobs are small and rather unprecise. Good sounds out of it though. You can't mute individual drums when they're being triggered by midi data out of Sonar except by muting them in Sonar itself as far as I can see. I'd probably have the XL-1 coming into the set at times. Having just gotten Reaktor, I'm wondering if anything I write with it is going to be useful in a live situation unless I record it all beforehand as audio tracks. And then except for muting/unmuting the live thing becomes less and less live.
Message 17/29 03-Apr-02 @ 06:52 PM - RE: Live Kit
Message 18/29 03-Apr-02 @ 07:08 PM - RE: Live Kit
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Message 19/29 03-Apr-02 @ 09:03 PM - RE: Live Kit
have you looked at PELICAN cases? they have that foam that you can form fit by removing small pieces?
not too pricy either. Honestly I would work on slimming your rig down even more (you had mentioned a rack of compressors, etc, then FX, then the soundsources?)
dunno...me? one keyboard, sequencer, a mixer and an FX box. one compressor on the main buss...
anything else is too much to carry
Message 20/29 03-Apr-02 @ 09:20 PM - RE: Live Kit
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Message 21/29 03-Apr-02 @ 10:55 PM - RE: Live Kit
4 boxes and a stand aint so bad
Message 22/29 04-Apr-02 @ 12:51 PM - RE: Live Kit
Guys, we have it easy now. You don't even want to try to think about moving, setting up, and dialing in and mic'ing a bass rig, then loading out at the end of the night. Four boxes is really easy, especially stuff that stores it all for you. And what ever happened to playing in a group, like three four, five people at the same time, bustin it out? It's not hard, you just have to use your ears more, and ego less. it works. I've done it with fourteen at once before. It can be done. We have it easy. Enjoy the fact. Use this ease, and get out there. Stop worrying about the nitpicking stuff, and just make sure you have what you need, and the other little bits if something goes wrong.
Message 23/29 05-Apr-02 @ 08:49 PM - RE: Live Kit
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sitar, you could do a whole live PA with the 6pack ensemble alone (reaktor)... sync sixpac to some external gear and you are set up nicely.
Message 24/29 05-Apr-02 @ 10:36 PM - RE: Live Kit
I do things a little different because I am working with a full band, 1 guitar, 1 bass, 1 drummer, and a vocalist (although we just fired his ass). So here it is:
Yamaha RM1X for sequencing & the drummer's click.. Basically the brains of the operation, but I do a lot of actual playing these days. A Nord Lead I keyboard as master keys and about 1/2 of the synth sounds. Access Virus A for the rest of the synth sounds. Akai S6000 sampler for the rest. And a Sony FX processor.. I forget the model, but it's got 4 ins and outs and lets you configure them to run 1 stereo effect or 2 independent mono effects.
One pair of outs from the Virus and both of the Nord outs go to the Sony.. From there I can assign FX however I need them (a stereo effct for the virus and 2 indepentand effects for the Nord, usually). Another pair of outs from the Virus go straight to the mixer, as does the main stereo out of the S6000. The internal tone generator in the RM1X goes to a headphone amp which feeds a click to the drummer. The mixer is a 10-channel Behringer which is nice live because it's small and light, not too noisy. And cheap! And the rack kit was included too
MIDI all gets routed through a MOTU Micro Express. This setup is nice because I can route signals at the channel level (nice for avoiding wierd notes coming from the wrong synth), and because I can take the whole rig home and simply plug it into the PC.
All this crap gets packed into 2 SKBs, plus a case for the Nord and the RM1X. Casparproject turned me on to these aluminum tool cases they sell at Home Depot for $20 to hold the RM. I cut a little foam to pack it in more solidly, but it fits nicely. One SKB is a 12-spacer, and it holds the Virus, mixer, MIDI interface, and the FX box. The other is a 6-space and it holds a power conditioner and the Akai.
I don't run the sequencer the entire time during a live set, just when I've got sequenced bits. About 2/3rds of the time I'm playing.
Message 25/29 06-Apr-02 @ 01:35 AM - RE: Live Kit
where the hell is casparproject?
Message 26/29 06-Apr-02 @ 05:10 AM - RE: Live Kit
File?: No file
Message 27/29 06-Apr-02 @ 10:34 AM - RE: Live Kit
Message 28/29 08-Apr-02 @ 03:59 PM - RE: Live Kit
He's also out of school and working now, maybe that explains it some.
Message 29/29 08-Apr-02 @ 08:19 PM - RE: Live Kit
plus..for a multiband compressor to work properly you would need to change the settings between (some) songs as they all dont really need the same effect
Im kindof a fan of the LoFi and distortion!
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