Getting A Dubby Sound - Mixing & FX forums

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Subject: Getting A Dubby Sound

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Original Message 1/60 13-Nov-02 @ 03:13 PM - Getting A Dubby Sound

Steve Webster

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Any suggestions for getting a proper dubby sound. No, I haven't got a tape echo box.

Anyway, is spring reverb the way to go. Plus are offical dub delys really just 3/16th? (Is that triplets?).

Also, dubby baselines. Are they just simple sines with the 60-80hz whacked up on the desk?

And what exactly are triplets and how do they work? Everytime, I try and fit 3 notes, equally spaced, in between the kick and snare (ie 4 16ths, it sounds wrong). I thought triplets were fitting just 3 16ths into the spave of 4 16ths. Obviously not. Help much appreciated.

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Message 2/60 13-Nov-02 @ 04:39 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

99devils

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You're close on the triplets - three notes fit into the space that two of those notes occupy. An eighth-note triplet that fits 3 notes into the space of a quarter note - where normall two eight notes would fit.

3 16th notes aren't triplets.. They're three 16th notes

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Message 3/60 13-Nov-02 @ 05:52 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

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at about 130 bpm it'll be about 345 ms on the delay - check the TABLES icon above on the site menu icons 0- there's a delay calculator there which'll give you delay times

also checkout that free delay at the top left column of the PLUGINS section. It's got filters which can do real nice dubby delays. the trademark of a dub delay is the treble-end rolls off with each repeat as it decays.

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 4/60 13-Nov-02 @ 10:26 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

influx

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OHMBOYZ DELAY!!!!

not free but..yeah

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Message 5/60 13-Nov-02 @ 10:36 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

bedwyr

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and the new psp84

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Message 6/60 13-Nov-02 @ 10:59 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

xoxos

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i thought it was that dub delays were always not synced?? ie. how a longer time drifts off the beat and takes you to "extra" stoned??

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Message 7/60 14-Nov-02 @ 03:16 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

JX3P0

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As a former Space Echo owner(R.I.P.) I must
say that sync isn't an issue as much as the
sound.Although before my 201 crapped out on
me an I did a blind A/B of my Space Echo and
the Space Echo algorithm in the Boss VF-1.I
must say it was very difficult to tell the
difference.So as far as modern hardware
goes I have to say the VF-1 is the champ.But
like k pointed out a delay w/a hi cut filter on
each respective echo does wonders.IMHO it's
more the sound than the time that matters w/
a dubby feel.As far as Bass goes a Fender P-
Bass is hard to beat.But in modern dub yeah
a stroked sine wave will give that big mellow
bass.I made a nice program in my S5000 by
blending a sine wave and a plucked bass
attack mixed way below the sine.Works nice.

H- Did I mention Dr.Dick's Dub Shack is a
sweet net station?

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Message 8/60 14-Nov-02 @ 03:20 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

JX3P0

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this link might help

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Message 9/60 14-Nov-02 @ 03:22 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

Damn I keep muckin up linkz

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oops

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Message 10/60 14-Nov-02 @ 03:23 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

Holy Bat Poop

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damn I need typing lessons

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Message 11/60 14-Nov-02 @ 04:18 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

psylichon

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ya know you can edit posts

Lets not forget the importance of the infinite feedbacked, lowcut (hipassed) filtered rimshot. Or any noise for that matter. And yes, slightly behind the tempo is best for swaying.

psylichon

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Message 12/60 14-Nov-02 @ 07:01 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

JX3P0

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only when you log on.And then for some
reason I have to post a file w/ every post.

H- the joy of a mac,oh boy!

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Message 13/60 14-Nov-02 @ 07:06 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

psylichon

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yeah man, osx rocks

;)

psy

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Message 14/60 14-Nov-02 @ 10:00 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

Steve Webster

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The tape delay in logic loses higher frequencies with each repeat, right?

Also, I am still confused about triplets. Fitting 3 16ths (equally spaced) in the space of 4 16th is right, yea?

Also, talking about triplets, if my drums and bass have a 16c (41 ticks) swing on them, do I do the same to the triplets? I know you guys talk alot about using your ears but I need to know the theory of triplets first. Thanks alot.

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Message 15/60 14-Nov-02 @ 12:05 PM Edit: 14-Nov-02 | 12:05 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

bedwyr

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[image file]

there's the logic delay initial preset but with the slider over to 75% and feedback at 54% for your classic dub delay

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Message 16/60 14-Nov-02 @ 12:12 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

Steve Webster

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Cool. Thanks Bedwyr. Can you explain triplets as easy? :-)

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Message 17/60 14-Nov-02 @ 12:22 PM Edit: 14-Nov-02 | 12:23 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

bedwyr

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thriple.mp3

^ try counting 1 2 3 / 1 2 3 / 1 2 3 / 1 2 3 over the conga that comes in. that's 3 over 2. (that's the way i think of it) 3 hits over two beats (kick, clap) the shakers are three over 1 (123 123 123 123) and the delay on the last conga is the setting above which is something else, hard to count but you can feel it, it just stretches out over 3 bars (after which the pattern starts again, i think the first bar is 1001 / 0010 / 0100 / 1001 see?)

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Message 18/60 14-Nov-02 @ 12:40 PM Edit: 14-Nov-02 | 12:41 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

bedwyr

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[image file]

that's the shaker pattern with the grid set to 1/24 in logic, it's how you fit three hits in one beat.

and now i'm off to get a haircut! woohoo!

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Message 19/60 14-Nov-02 @ 12:49 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

milan

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hehe. trippy listening, that last conga especially.

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Message 20/60 14-Nov-02 @ 01:18 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

Steve Webster

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Thanks Bedwyr. I can't listen to files at the moment but your last post explains it to me in a simple but effective way. Are you a teacher by any chance?

So all I do is change the grid resolution to 1/24 and paint in a note in every other grid space. Than I will have triplets?

Now as foar as swing goes, which of the 3 notes would I move. Probably the 2nd note? And if I am using a swing of 16c on my standard 4x4 drums, should I apply the same swing to the triplet pattern?

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Message 21/60 14-Nov-02 @ 02:24 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

bedwyr

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[image file]

that's 1 beat. with the grid at 1/24

the bottom line in straight sixteenths

the top line is triplet

swing is everything in between (and maybe a little beyond) if it's swung hard it's closer to triplet.

the second row (from the bottom) is logic 16C

the next line up is logic 16E which is actually triplet feel.

see? triplet is already swung, quite hard. not as hard as logic 16F but that's just plain useless.

anyway, that haircut took ten years off me. ahh, 14 again.

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Message 22/60 14-Nov-02 @ 05:50 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

milan

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excuse me for asking, but where do you guys find those things? 16C, 16E, 16F etc? are those templates? wish i knew cause i always have to move everything by hand or with the delay function...

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Message 23/60 14-Nov-02 @ 06:01 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

bedwyr

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bloody hell milan!

time for another picture i guess.

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Message 24/60 14-Nov-02 @ 06:08 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

bedwyr

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[image file]

click and hold next to the qua thing on the arrange page (above the toolbox) or hold down the Q button in the other editors.

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Message 25/60 14-Nov-02 @ 06:41 PM Edit: 14-Nov-02 | 06:45 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

milan

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^^this is the propper link for the piccie, wouldnt open for me.

thanks, i see. still dont find them very usefull though. cheers anyway... i prefer to mess with the Q-swing parameters in order to get it to groove right. but maybe thats something different altogether...

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Message 26/60 14-Nov-02 @ 07:02 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

bedwyr

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nah, same thing. quantize on 16ths and 65% q-swing is triplet feel.

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Message 27/60 14-Nov-02 @ 07:06 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

milan

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ok then. but still, you can at least choose how much swing you want. yes?

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Message 28/60 14-Nov-02 @ 07:11 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

bedwyr

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yes, it's more of a feel thing when you do it like that, sweep it between 50% and 70-ish. i usually opt for one of the set ones c or b coz i like 'em. that's for house though and the slower a track is the heavier swing it needs i think.

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Message 29/60 14-Nov-02 @ 07:17 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

milan

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right... have you found the uk garage one yet? one with the very early snare?

hows this as a replacement for chat, eh?

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Message 30/60 14-Nov-02 @ 07:19 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

xoxos

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i dunno about you but a lot of the magic of analog delays (which i know more than dub) is in playing it, ie. riding the regen and just being partial witht he time.

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Message 31/60 14-Nov-02 @ 07:34 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

bedwyr

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yeah, you can do that with the logic delay, record some automation in with some midi controllers - send, feedback and groove slider.

in fact i might go do that right now. m, you had trouble mapping midi controllers to automation?

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Message 32/60 14-Nov-02 @ 07:42 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

milan

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err... no? not really, my only problem is that every plug/synth uses different controllers. but for example, i made a promix template for the A1 so i can twiddle with all 16 faders. i guess making a simple one for jamming with the delay shouldnt be a problem.

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Message 33/60 15-Nov-02 @ 12:30 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

psylichon

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the terminology can be cofusing. So, generally:

eighth-note triplet = 1/3 of a quarter note
(if your sequencer is 960 pulses per quarter note, one of these would be 320 pulses or ticks or whatever. This is the type you're talking about here)

quarter-note triplet - 1/3 of a half-note
(2*960/3 = 640 pulses)

sixteenth-note triplet = 1/3 of a eighth note
(960/2/3 = 160 pulses)

Now, 1/8-note triplets are easily confused with a popular dub delay time, 3/16 (3 sixteenth-note lengths). This is a dotted-eigth delay that hits every 1.5 beats (dotted notes are 1.5 times longer than their undotted version, so a dotted eigth note would be 3/4 of a beat instead of 1/2... and 3 16th-notes are the same length). This is NOT a triplet. If you mess around with your delays, you'll hear the difference in vibe.

psylichon

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Message 34/60 15-Nov-02 @ 09:39 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

Steve Webster

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Great. So Bedwyr, what your saying is not to swing triplets cos their kinda swang already? I tried last night and found that triplets fall on 1, 81, 161 ticks. So if I use 16c as a swing, then should I move the 2nd triplet by 41 ticks aswell or just leave it?

Also Bedwyr, I have been using the same swing (16c+41 ticks) for all my drums and bass. Is that good enough? Do you think its more pumping compression that makes a track groove?

Also do you keep your snare/claps dead on or make them come in slightly early? (ie 5 ticks)

Sorry, for all the questions but groove is a complex creature to me. :-)

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Message 35/60 15-Nov-02 @ 10:45 AM Edit: 15-Nov-02 | 10:46 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

bedwyr

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"should" well, have a listen to that brandy track that rodney jerkins did. chart rnb thing, can't remember the name of it at the moment. anyone?

and why don't you do one 8 bar loop at 16c and one at 16c + 41 ticks and decide for yourself? innit.

or just do it with the q-swing parameter, and shift it until it feels right. you could select all your relevant parts and just tweak the whole lot in one go

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Message 36/60 15-Nov-02 @ 10:54 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

Steve Webster

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"and why don't you do one 8 bar loop at 16c and one at 16c + 41 ticks and decide for yourself? innit".

What do you mean Bedwyr? Sorry, I'm thick.

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Message 37/60 15-Nov-02 @ 11:09 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

bedwyr

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do 8bars of music with everything quantized at 16c and another 8 bars with it all at 16c+41 and see which one feels better.

and that brandy track, "what about, what about .." what's it called? that was the freakiest tune on totp in ages.

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Message 38/60 15-Nov-02 @ 11:18 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

Steve Webster

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But bruv, 16c + 41 is 81 ticks. I am confused now. Ummmm.

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Message 39/60 15-Nov-02 @ 11:24 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

milan

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man... destinys child have some mad swing in their tunes. listen to THAT. bootylicious, bugaboo etc... groove like hell but you wont even notice it unless you pay attention.

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Message 40/60 15-Nov-02 @ 11:36 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

bedwyr

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"I have been using the same swing (16c+41 ticks) for all my drums and bass"

you started it!

i don't think in ticks, so 16c+41 might be crazy. all i'm saying is, try different swing out, do what feels right. i think i might start doing milan's thing with the q-swing.

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Message 41/60 15-Nov-02 @ 11:40 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

Steve Webster

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LOL. :-) Last 2 questions I promise.

Bedwyr, do you use the same swing for all your drums and basslines?

Do you mostly use triplets for hats (like maybe a little roll at the end of 2 bars, etc)?

Nice one bruv.

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Message 42/60 15-Nov-02 @ 11:51 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

psylichon

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"What About Us"

If you have the CD, look in the liner notes and tell me if I'm in there as assistant engineer or not.

Rodney Jerkins is supposed to be anal about credits.

psylichon, aka Dave Schonauer

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Message 43/60 15-Nov-02 @ 11:57 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

milan

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hehe! you know i have a dnb bootleg of that track? how does that make you feel? you aint in the credits, thats for sho'

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Message 44/60 15-Nov-02 @ 11:59 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

Steve Webster

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Ohh psy! pray tell more. Did he use an MPC? Did he smoke weed? How long did the track take? Does he use PC technology? Did he mix the track?

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Message 45/60 15-Nov-02 @ 12:02 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

psylichon

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well i have the vocal accapella :P

seriously, i'm not in the credits? that kinda pisses me off

psy

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Message 46/60 15-Nov-02 @ 12:04 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

psylichon

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and he brought the session in on CD as a Pro-Tools session, so I don't know what he used. He didn't mix it, Dexter Simmons did (and I learned A LOT from him... amazing engineer). What I can tell you is that before the mix was striked, Rodney sampled all his drums and bass with FX to DAT. Smart man.

psylichon

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Message 47/60 15-Nov-02 @ 12:06 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

milan

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i meant on the bootleg, doh!

so tell me, does mr. jerkins program those swinging beats himself?

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Message 48/60 15-Nov-02 @ 12:07 PM Edit: 15-Nov-02 | 12:09 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

psylichon

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yeah... REALLY REALLY LOUDLY

edit: oh yeah, he did track some stuff. MPC300, triton, and JV2080 if I remember correctly. He loves the slippy slidey beats

psy

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Message 49/60 15-Nov-02 @ 12:12 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

milan

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MPC swing, eh?

o/t: do you maybe also know if beyonce makes the beats for the tracks she produces? i know its a different artist altogether but maybe you overheard something?

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Message 50/60 15-Nov-02 @ 12:14 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

Steve Webster

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Shit, I thought the USA was really good at creditting the engineers. Whenever I watch those USA music awards, all the engineers names get read out.

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Message 51/60 15-Nov-02 @ 12:18 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

milan

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well look it up at brandy�s site, there�s a complete thank you list for the album and the "engineers and mixers" got credited, couldnt find psylichon though.

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Message 52/60 15-Nov-02 @ 01:03 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

Steve Webster

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I don't think they credit tea boys! :-)

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Message 53/60 15-Nov-02 @ 10:47 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

psylichon

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Man that's truly lame. They even made a big deal about how R.J. goes nuts with making sure everyone (down to the 'teaboy') gets credited, wrote my name down and all. But I'm nowhere in the credits posted online. And I'm not about to buy that shitty album just to make sure.

pfffa

psy

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Message 54/60 16-Nov-02 @ 03:09 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

operant

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Btw...since you mentioned dubby basslines. What could be a cheap alternative to the fender classic p bass for dub stuff?

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Message 55/60 16-Nov-02 @ 03:18 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

damballah

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the squire p bass

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Message 56/60 16-Nov-02 @ 08:20 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

operant

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Thanks for the tip. I'm looking forward to experimenting with live bass in my techhouz tracks.. as soon as I learn how to play first...

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Message 57/60 19-Nov-02 @ 09:26 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

JX3P0

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For P-Bass madness seek out the JP-90.It
had active P and J pickups.Was a budget Jap
Fender but super playable.Should be second
hand at a lil more than a squire.They have a
new one too that looks the part.Mustangs
have a split single coil and can do some
damage.Just make sure you use an Ampeg
as your amp.They made a nice single 15"
convertible unit about 8 yrs back.Good stuff.

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Message 58/60 25-Nov-02 @ 03:01 PM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

BJT

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Someone mentioning moving the snares and claps forward?

I thought it was more common to move the BDs forward a tick or two, apparantly it gives a more of a "doof" effect. I think it could be because then the lows reach your ear before the highs. But I don't know, any thoughts?

I don't like moving the snares forward because I use them as a reference when beatmixing, especially the first snare. (breakbeat and drum'n'bass DJ).

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Message 59/60 26-Nov-02 @ 03:04 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

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bass tips for ye olde style dubs No. 372 - use FLATWOUND strings - not roundwound

___________________________________

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Message 60/60 27-Nov-02 @ 03:01 AM - RE: Getting A Dubby Sound

JX3P0

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Definitely flatwounds.And leave the same
ones on til they break.k,check this out.I'm
broke right now but the cat w/ the prime Time
is gonna let me do yardwork and gutter
cleaning for my balance.

H- Yardstyle?

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