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Subject: neccessary force

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Original Message 1/39 15-Nov-02 @ 12:20 AM - neccessary force

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So there was a high speed chase that happened a few hours ago around here, and it ended a few blocks from my house. This guy apparently had been running for an hour or something, while firing shots behind him at the 20+ police vehicles following him. After his second collision with another vehicle, he's stuck and the police approach the vehicle, at which time he decides to pull out a rifle and point it at the cops. Apparently every cop on the scene felt it neccessary to put a few bullets in him. From my house I heard about 30+ shots fired, and I don't think he even got one off. All within about a three second period. Somebody also wanted to 'make sure he's dead' or something, because after about almost a second of silence somebody put 3 more rounds in him.

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Message 2/39 15-Nov-02 @ 12:25 AM - RE: neccessary force

Jon

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I'd bust a few caps in his arse too just for pointing

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Message 3/39 15-Nov-02 @ 12:48 AM - RE: neccessary force

psylichon

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yeah. people that shoot at cops are real smart. They get what they deserve.

I watch these cop shows and the high speed chases, at people endangering hundreds of lives so they can escape responsibility for a couple seconds. THEY ALWAYS GET CAUGHT. Dumb motherfuckers, I almost want to beat the shit out of them by the times the cops finally stop them.

If you do the crime...

psylichon

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Message 4/39 15-Nov-02 @ 12:49 AM - RE: neccessary force

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...you get a closed casket.

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Message 5/39 15-Nov-02 @ 02:06 AM - RE: neccessary force

pict

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What about when you don't do the crime and get busted/shot anyway?Is that just tough shit?

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Message 6/39 15-Nov-02 @ 02:09 AM - RE: neccessary force

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mebbe he wanted to make 'TOP ALL TIM COP CHASE VIDEO CLIPS' hall of fame?

I can't htink of any other reason except it was a rather dramatic suicide.

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Message 7/39 15-Nov-02 @ 02:13 AM - RE: neccessary force

influx

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so what are you sayin, N3, that the guy didnt deserve to get shot?

cops fire too much cuz theyre fuckin angry and scared. Definitely not necessary and a bit embarrassing to watch...

but those lowlife pieces of shit who run and endanger EVERYONE around them...FUCK THAT

its a bit contradictory, but even in my disdain for many laws...my take on this is that if you DO run....you are immediately guilty of multiple counts of attempted vehicular manslaughter, reckless driving, assault, etc, and SHOULD be shot the instant you get pulled from the car.

one clean shot to the noggin

yeah yeah..draconian nonsense with way too many loopholes and the racist pigs would start shooting everyone

well dont fucking RUN then! if youre innocent, stand your ground...lay down on your fucking face and dont move!

if youre guilty..well then youre SOL fucker!

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Message 8/39 15-Nov-02 @ 02:14 AM - RE: neccessary force

influx

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"What about when you don't do the crime and get busted/shot anyway?Is that just tough shit? "

then the COPS get gotten rid of. their job is to protect, and the instant they show a crack in the armour they should be relieved of their duties.

problem is theres just too much fucking tolerance and now everyone is running around like a bunch of undisciplined children. The "authorities" are just as guilty as the "criminals"

again...N3...I ask you...what would you have them do? wait til he starts firing again? You said the guy was shooting at the cops the whole time?

fuck him.

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Message 9/39 15-Nov-02 @ 02:21 AM - RE: neccessary force

pict

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There are supposedly cases in the US where people commit suicide by cop.
There was an incident in London where a Scottish guy was walking home from the pub with the leg of a chair in a plastic bag which he was going to use for a repair.Someone in the pub he had previously been in phoned the lieges of the land and said they had seen an Irish guy leaving the pub with what looked like a gun in a bag.The cops blew him away in the street without even asking him to put the bag down,they said they thought they were dealing with an IRA man.

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Message 10/39 15-Nov-02 @ 02:31 AM - RE: neccessary force

JX3P0

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Ah,the beauty of a fast bike.A lil duct tape over
the ol plate and bye bye piggy,Of course i'm
not running cause i did anything wrong.Just
cause I can.

H- It's a lovely rush.My life of crime is over.At
least until i'm off probation.nah,i'm a good boy
now.

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Message 11/39 15-Nov-02 @ 02:46 AM - RE: neccessary force

pict

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The problem I have with the police is that,in my experience and that of many others I know,they abuse the executive power of the law that is in their hands due to not being either intellectually or psychologically equipped for the job.All this lying down with your face in the filthy street while some heavy built,armed and armoured,servant of authority barks fascist sounding commands at you,while standing on your neck is a degrading and unecessary way to deal with unarmed suspects.

I know people who have had relatives beaten to death in police custody in Glasgow and no charges were ever brought against the police.If we're going to have a civil militia I think they should go through extensive psychological screening during training(and at frequent intervals thereafter if they graduate)as well as reasonably high academic demands being made of them to help dissuade the mentally less well equipped individuals that we meet up with in uniform these days from attempting to join(the dark side of)the force.I think accountabilty for their actions has to be the prime consideration in a police force if it is to have any legitimacy.

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Message 12/39 15-Nov-02 @ 05:57 AM - RE: neccessary force

Jon

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spot on influx

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Message 13/39 15-Nov-02 @ 08:50 AM - RE: neccessary force

power

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corrupts

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Message 14/39 15-Nov-02 @ 08:52 AM - RE: neccessary force

psylichon

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man you people are broad on the generalizations.

Are policemen known to be corrupt? yes.

Are most cops crooked? no.

Anyone disagree?

psy

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Message 15/39 15-Nov-02 @ 10:16 AM - RE: neccessary force

bedwyr

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yeah. fuck the pigs maaan!

besides, i'm bored with the sheep around here.

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Message 16/39 15-Nov-02 @ 10:36 AM - RE: neccessary force

influx

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"The problem I have with the police is that,in my experience and that of many others I know,they abuse the executive power of the law that is in their hands due to not being either intellectually or psychologically equipped for the job.All this lying down with your face in the filthy street while some heavy built,armed and armoured,servant of authority barks fascist sounding commands at you,while standing on your neck is a degrading and unecessary way to deal with unarmed suspects. "

bro. pict

ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY

and like I said..those FUCKS should be removed from power.

but we are not talking about unarmed poor little innocents here

we are talking about armed robbers, car "jackers", murderers, etc who are 100% in the wrong and have NO respect for OTHER PEOPLES LIVES...and risk them with their every move

FUCK those pieces of SHIT, man. I wish that we could kill them ALL immediately so people like me who just wnat to god damn live my fucking life without some testosterone laden ASSHOLE fucking it up for me

fuck all the gang shit. fuck all the bikers who thump on anyone who looks at them. FUCK all the assholes who run from cops and put other people at risk just because they dont feel like paying the penalties for what theyve done. KILL THEM ALL

good fucking riddance

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Message 17/39 15-Nov-02 @ 10:48 AM - RE: neccessary force

Maarten

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Yeah, talk about stereotyping... sjeesh, *most* of em are there for your own good. Unless you are of the psycho & packing kind...

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Message 18/39 15-Nov-02 @ 10:53 AM - RE: neccessary force

you are the judge

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Did he get a ticket? you are on the potentially arresting officer on the scene, there are no witnesses - you decide

layer 1: officer caught speeding

layer 2: officer caught drunk driving

layer 3: officer removing goods from scene of electronics store robbery

layer 3b: officer removing goods from scene of electronics store robbery - you have worked with the officer/member of same social society

layer 3c: officer removing goods from scene of electronics store robbery - officer offers 'take' of value of goods removed

layer 4: officer altering evidence to support questionable prosecution

layer 4b: officer altering evidence to support questionable prosecution of known criminal

layer 5: officer offers cash to join prostitute protection racket

layer 5b: officer threatens violence/job security to remain silent/join prostitute protection racket

possible combinations:

rank of officer / officer is well respected

mutual membership of social society (masons, etc) / 'connectedness' of officer

officer has known history of violence

officer has information damaging to you / has 'let you off' in the past

... what is the upshot if any of the occasions lets the officer off

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Message 19/39 15-Nov-02 @ 10:58 AM - RE: neccessary force

wipeout

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I agree, however, I can't help but think the police get some jollies speeding down the road tracking down these idiots like riders on a fox hunt and in doing so put other people on the road at much greater risk of being inadvertantly killed or injured by the frantic driving tatics of those idiots trying to outrun the law. Look at Waco. They could have got the job done with minimal force by waiting for David Koresh down the road but had to go in with mega testosterone and guns blazing which killed everyone involved including childen.

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Message 20/39 15-Nov-02 @ 11:20 AM Edit: 15-Nov-02 | 11:21 AM - RE: neccessary force

Steve Roughley

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^^^^ I really like and know what you're saying influx.

Respect!

Steve.

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Message 21/39 15-Nov-02 @ 06:17 PM - RE: neccessary force

errata

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I'd say if you point a gun at a guy with a gun you can expect it to be the last thing you do in this life.

I'd also say that it's a damn shame that some screwed up human did that screwed up sh*t. And how terrible it must be for some of those cops who never have been in a situation like that before. I'm sure the reality of their decision to be cops came home at the moment as well. Probably explains the guy who didn't START firing until everyone else stopped. He was probably completely FREAKED out.

Sounds like a really bad deal for everyone involved. What I'm always surprised at is folks going on about, "F*ck him, he deserved it!" I'm in complete agreement with the idea of people taking responsibility for their own actions. But a little F*cking human compassion goes a long way toward preventing this sh*t people.

Not only should we except personal responsibility for our actions, but it might also be healthy to except some social responsibility for our culture!

e

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Message 22/39 15-Nov-02 @ 06:42 PM - RE: neccessary force

99devils

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C'mon, e... If you shoot at me, and I'm armed, I'm gonna shoot back. If you shoot at a cop, they're definately gonna shoot back.

Moral of the story, don't shoot at cops (duh)

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Message 23/39 15-Nov-02 @ 07:38 PM - RE: neccessary force

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For posterity

But what if you are off it, looking here for a reason not to, caught again...

f me cold

no music I can hear

fearealfeel ndyin gettin

paid for it

respect to e

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Message 24/39 15-Nov-02 @ 07:55 PM - RE: neccessary force

pimp

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he picked me up outside the bus station, i'd just come in alone from the country. He helped me and then drugged me into owning him my body. For anyone now

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Message 25/39 15-Nov-02 @ 08:40 PM - RE: neccessary force

influx

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"Sounds like a really bad deal for everyone involved. What I'm always surprised at is folks going on about, "F*ck him, he deserved it!" I'm in complete agreement with the idea of people taking responsibility for their own actions. But a little F*cking human compassion goes a long way toward preventing this sh*t people. "

bullshit bullshit BULLSHIT.

we've been compassionate for too fucking long, coddling people, man.

starts at the parent/child level and just moves on up. buncha spoiled ME FIRST
CHILDREN running around

I see what youre saying. honest. but its bullshit. I dont trust those doing the cracking unfortunately, but at this stage a crackdown is whats needed.

self-regulation is a wonderful ideal, but fails miserably in almost all situations

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Message 26/39 15-Nov-02 @ 09:39 PM - RE: neccessary force

loopy

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Go Influx! Ok cops aren't angels, true there are some bad cops, but there also are some good cops. But criminals (actual criminals, NOT suspected criminals) are all bad. If they shoot at people, drive like a c*nt and endanger lives, end theirs, quickly. This scenario is a world apart from some innocent amateur carpenter guy with a chair leg. Lest we forget cops are people too, they up, no excuse but thats all it is, no matter how tragic. A trucker who has forgotten to take his nap breaks and ploughs into a bus full of schoolkids may walk away from the incident physically unhurt, but the mental scars will haunt him forever. Mass murderers on the other hand have no remorse, take Myra Hindley she is quoted as saying "I'm not mad so I must just be bad" funny huh? Well she died today and I hope the C*nt burns in hell for eternity, then when she's screaming and can't take no more maybe just maybe she will be experiencing the pain of the parents of the kids she killed. Here's hoping.

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Message 27/39 15-Nov-02 @ 09:45 PM - RE: neccessary force

influx

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odd. not used to people agreeing with me

its a hard position to take, because I truly hate the rampant authority that is ubiquitous nowadays. But..with how fucked up things are its just necessary to have cops that use force when justifiable

sadly, they fail horribly sometimes. IMO they too should be eliminated...

the whole thing seems corrupt, but...if you look at it rationally its not 'all' that bad. Could be hella worse...and sometimes Im glad theyre out there.

its just sad that instead of being impartial arbiters of wisdome they are often just programmed JOCKS. Just another army...

sick.

ive met some good cops tho. definitely

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Message 28/39 15-Nov-02 @ 10:40 PM - RE: neccessary force

errata

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I'm sooooo misunderstood...

I'm not saying that he can't expect to get shot. Or that it's wrong to shoot him... Just that the whole thing is f*cked up from the beginning.

I'm also not suggesting that we hand hold and apologize for bad behaviour. F*ck the ME FIRST crap. I rag often about this "every child is special" crap just because it teaches children that they're more important than others.

I'm just suggesting that to ignore the causes and conditions in both our society and the individual accomplishes nothing. Just some human understanding of what must be in the mind of someone who behaves this irrational and out of step with reason. Not to apologize for him but to prevent ourselves and our culture from becoming the monstruous mess these people are representative of.

I am often surprised at how brutal some people can be. "He deserved to die", without a second thought. That's as frightening to me as the guy who points the gun. Not the same thing!! But just as unnerving, and sad.

e

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Message 29/39 15-Nov-02 @ 11:17 PM - RE: neccessary force

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Influx, I'm not saying that he didn't deserve to be shot. I just think the PD around here gets a little excited and reckless. They do this about every 8 months or something.

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Message 30/39 15-Nov-02 @ 11:18 PM - RE: neccessary force

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And heaven forbid they should live to go to trial

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Message 31/39 15-Nov-02 @ 11:49 PM - RE: neccessary force

influx

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"And heaven forbid they should live to go to trial "

YES. heaven fucking forbid because some asshole that drives around taking potshots at EVERYONE does NOT deserve the fucking LUXURY of being locked up on some posh prison.

hell..or even a nasty ass 3rd world hovel!

they deserve to DIE. right then and there. in the street like the rabid dogs they are.

BAM!

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Message 32/39 16-Nov-02 @ 12:28 AM - RE: neccessary force

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Then that should be policy changed at the top level. I don't disagree that they deserve some serious punishment, perhaps one more severe than our curent system hands out, but the role of the police is not judge/jury/executioner. All I'm saying.

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Message 33/39 16-Nov-02 @ 01:16 AM - RE: neccessary force

psylichon

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the role of the police in this case was one of self-preservation, not justice.

psylichon

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Message 34/39 16-Nov-02 @ 02:08 AM - RE: neccessary force

influx

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exactly!!!!! and immediate protection of the public. Fact is 'we' dont know what happened except for the tidbits that were passed on by you...but based on what you said I think the cops did fine, except for the waste of ammo (Ive always wondered why they fire so many times...and Ive come to the conclusion that they are SCARED! and rightfully so. such lunacy is rare, despite what the papers want us to believe, and ANYONE who was exposed to this sort of shit...would probably react the same way out of sheer terror!)

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Message 35/39 16-Nov-02 @ 02:09 AM - RE: neccessary force

influx

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"but the role of the police is not judge/jury/executioner. All I'm saying."

agreed. on paper. but sometimes the fact of the matter is that they almost have no choice!

would you want your brother, dad, husband, etc, to try to ARREST some asshole with a rifle?

fuck that. BAM! problem solved

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Message 36/39 17-Nov-02 @ 10:56 PM - RE: neccessary force

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Influx, your points are valid. It was just disgusting hearing that sh!t happen.

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Message 37/39 17-Nov-02 @ 11:00 PM - RE: neccessary force

Zazza

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How many of them do it to get on tv you reckon?

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Message 38/39 18-Nov-02 @ 06:08 PM - RE: neccessary force

99devils

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Good point Zazza... Probably too many of them.

Maybe they do it so that the cops will save them the trouble of spending 20-to-life as some guy's bitch..

-Craig

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Message 39/39 21-Nov-02 @ 09:03 AM - RE: neccessary force

JX3P0

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Running from cops on car is bad,on
superbike good.besides I ride w/ roadracers
and understand the physics of the bike.I
would never ride under the influence because
to ride a superbike is pretty influincing on it's
own.

H- Only endangering my own life that
way.Cages suck anyway.So do redneck harley
bikers that want to fight for no reson.Luckily
they'll fall off before they catch me.

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