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Subject: breakbeat techniques

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Original Message 1/40 22-Nov-97 @ 11:37 PM - breakbeat techniques

pmeehan

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Could anybody suggest a simple first time approach to creating and experimenting with breakbeats like that of the Prodigy and Crystal Method? What are the common techniques and effects used?

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Message 2/40 23-Nov-97 @ 02:46 AM - RE: breakbeat techniques

Hilevelt

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Get a busy loop, cut off the first beat so it starts on the snare

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Message 3/40 24-Nov-97 @ 07:14 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

DJ Phallus

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cut a cool loop to pieces, and create a new beat with
that - everybody seems to be doing it...

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Message 4/40 25-Nov-97 @ 04:11 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

freestyle

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Recipe for a drum 'n' bass break :

1) Take either the "Amen" or the "Apache" drum-loops.

2) Pitch up.

3) Bake in the oven for 25-30 minutes at 180 C.

4) Sweeten with a sub-bass strong enough to break windows.

5) Serve when ready.

later...

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Message 5/40 25-Nov-97 @ 06:01 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

DJ Phallus

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where can I get these loops? (amen, apache)

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Message 6/40 25-Nov-97 @ 06:37 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

Ufo

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Yeah!

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Message 7/40 27-Nov-97 @ 08:25 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

sergxp50

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1. the CUT-loop method:
process loop with ReCycle - it will cut it into individual hits, then mees-up.

2. use just a drum machine or a synth - program snare and kick hits on non-strong beats (just try to copy from like Prodigy records).
And use strong compression on drums ;)

3. cool drumloops at 113 beats

Luck!

SergXP50

** evil genius tip:
you can insertHTML tags in these messages ;)

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Message 8/40 28-Nov-97 @ 11:09 AM - RE: breakbeat techniques

freestyle

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You'll find both the Amen and Apache loops at Subvert's
Breakbeat Page.

later...

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Message 9/40 28-Nov-97 @ 03:53 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

Ufo

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Ey, mr freestyle, i cannot download a thing!

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Message 10/40 29-Nov-97 @ 09:02 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

DJ Phallus

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yeah, neither can I!

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Message 11/40 01-Dec-97 @ 10:39 AM - RE: breakbeat techniques

freestyle

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fuck yeah...something seems to be wrong with mr subvert's pages. i got stuff there a while back, without problems. mail yer man who maintains the site and see what he says.

anyway, there's fuck loads of amen breaks at 113. see sergeXP50's post for the url. I'm too lazy to encode it into this message. didn't come across any apache breaks, but then I haven't downloaded that many breaks from the site...I do have to work sometimes...search the page (CTRL+F) for amen and you'll find loads of them. have fun.

later...

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Message 12/40 01-Dec-97 @ 11:22 AM - RE: breakbeat techniques

Sedusa66

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You know, this doesn't have much to do with where to find these breaks that everyone knows, but does anyone know of a good place to find samples of "real" drums? ie acoustic and actually hit with a stick.. I've been looking for some good acoustic kicks, and I can't seem to rip any decent ones off my records.. Single hits..
It's easy to find premanufactured breaks, or drum machine samples, but I'm hungry for the sound of someone really stepping on a pedal to drive some organic sounding drum lines..

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Message 13/40 01-Dec-97 @ 01:21 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

kilo

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You probably can't get thru cos it's on Demon's server, and they are crap !!!!.....

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Message 14/40 01-Dec-97 @ 09:28 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

DJ Phallus

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Just downloaded some Amen beats - only to find out I've
been using it for years... It's great, but it's been used
too much... I want to try the Apache, anyone got it?

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Message 15/40 02-Dec-97 @ 08:50 AM - RE: breakbeat techniques

ahadjak

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Try Jungle Warfare vol 1 from Zero G.
Cool sample cd.It has both Amen and Apache.
bye...
Amiga Rules!

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Message 16/40 02-Dec-97 @ 12:38 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

Avene

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I got all those beats on albums called "Ultimate Breaks and Beats" and "Super Disco Breaks".. These are beats B Boys used to Breakdance to back in the 70's...There's another popular one by James Brown called "Give it up or turn it loose"...well, I think that's the name of it...

But, as far as I'm concerned, it's not about what breaks you use, it's what you can do with the breaks you use that makes the difference...You can do Drum n Bass with any drum sounds...Try and track down some old Prog Rock stuff from the 70's..stuff like the Gong, some of those records had a great drum sound.

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Message 17/40 02-Dec-97 @ 01:15 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

freestyle

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yeah, the amen & apache breaks are (well) overused, but the original poster was looking for a starting point...and the amen + apache breaks are an easy, familiar way to get into using breakbeats. The sample CDs mentioned probably are cool, but they're also �60 each, which kinda lessens their value. If you're making money from your music they're well worth the investment, but otherwise I don't think so. But then that's just my opinion...

later...

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Message 18/40 12-Dec-97 @ 06:31 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

neil.crane

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sorry to plug... but WaveSurgeon at http://freespace.virgin.net/neil.crane is always useful for slicing breaks...

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Message 19/40 08-Jan-98 @ 01:36 AM - RE: breakbeat techniques

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Does anyone actually bother to program their own breaks in cubase ? If you do I would love to exchange quantising tips with any like minded individual.

To those of you contemplating hacking up the amen beat please don't bother... it was great back in 89 / 90 but I really do think it has had its day, at whatever bmp. It's a bit like "Funky drummer".

Avene.. super disco breaks vols 1 & 2 are great for the tracks alone, even if the recording quality of these bootlegs is shite. Bob James' "Take me to the mardi gras" is a quality track. This is one break worth using time and time again, as long as its tastefully done! Run DMC's "Peter Piper" really was the bollocks as was Marathon's "movin" and The Sound Vandals "Extasy (what is it?)". Does anyone remember tracks like these?

OK well that about concludes my contribution to the debate. I hope it's of some interest to you all!

J.J.

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Message 20/40 08-Jan-98 @ 01:12 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

Avene

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Janet Jackson ???? Gotta agree with ya about the tracks on those LPs being worth listening to. When you go to a jam these days the djs usually just play the original of Apache, and everyone loves it.

Has anyone seen that documentary from about 13 years called the History of Hip Hop? There's this interview with Malcolm McClaren, and mid way through they cut to a breaking scene where there's a DJ alternating 2 copies of Amen Brother on really old turntables. Excellent stuff. The funky breakdown is the best bit, but none of those Jungle Jim dickheads have ever used that bit to my knowledge.

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Message 21/40 08-Jan-98 @ 02:45 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

kilo

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once I get the studio set up at home, I'll be adding large amounts of samples and breaks to the site......

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Message 22/40 08-Jan-98 @ 04:56 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

Spot

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These files are nout to do with demon, there actuallyHERE!

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Message 23/40 08-Jan-98 @ 05:25 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

kilo

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aha........ but the original url given was for demon server...... anyway..... i add them here... in the samples section.....

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Message 24/40 08-Jan-98 @ 07:47 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

Sedusa

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Cool! Give us more good snares and shit hehe

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Message 25/40 02-Feb-98 @ 09:41 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

Jmackcam

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I just downloaded amen apache + other stormin breakbeats -
can I use them in a commercial track ? HOW?
where are they from? Why do they sound so different from anything I can do with a drum machine?

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Message 26/40 03-Feb-98 @ 04:11 AM - RE: breakbeat techniques

Avene

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Apache was originally recorded by The Incredible Bongo Band, I'm not too sure of the band who did Amen Brother. It's safe to use breaks in tracks as long as they don't contain anyones musical composition..There may be copyrights on the actual recordings, but I've never heard of anyone getting sued for a drum loop.

At my site http://www.nettrade.com.au/avene/ I've just included a list of about 45 classic breaks. These are all from the original recordings and have not been modified by any dodgy wannabe producers with a copy of Recycle. It's more fun to do the chopping yourself. Check em out.

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Message 27/40 03-Feb-98 @ 04:06 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

ivan

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The Winstons (or something like that) made Amen. The radio channel P3 in Sweden has played it two times in the "Klubb" program (as in Club, no, not the the verb...).

As they did say, those 10 seconds in the middle has been used fairly much...

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Message 28/40 03-Feb-98 @ 06:17 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

iskross

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People are getting sued for using beats all the time!
James Brown is very bad, he'll sue you for anything.
But if you aren't planning a major release it should be pretty safe.

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Message 29/40 03-Feb-98 @ 10:52 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

Jmackcam

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thanks everyone for the advice. I have never tried cutting up loops and breaks - can I do it without recycle ? is there a
cheap/free version out there? I have just discovered Hammerhead - Magnificent! could be the end of my marriage tho.

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Message 30/40 04-Feb-98 @ 11:21 AM - RE: breakbeat techniques

ivan

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You can cut up loops using almost any sample edit program. Just try any freeware/shareware program out there. It's just easier with ReCycle, and it got some other features.

You could also try to chop beats using tape, razor and lots of patience... ;)

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Message 31/40 04-Feb-98 @ 02:58 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

Spot

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But, yould be an absolute twat to do that though

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Message 32/40 04-Feb-98 @ 03:16 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

kilo

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aha Spot....but......think what sounds....MIGHT come from doing that with tape edits !!??.......

get Wavesurgeon....(the demo is here)...... it's just like re-cycle....... and VERY cheap.......check the authors site (Neil Crane)......there are updated versions there.....and mucho info.....

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Message 33/40 05-Feb-98 @ 06:32 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

biddulph

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Everyone has heard about how the dnb breaks come from The Winstons and The Incredible Bongos or whoever, but I've never heard these records - only the breaks! Can anyone make or point me to a realaudio (or similar) copy of these tunes as a whole? Not for sampling, just for curiousity and all.

Cheers.

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Message 34/40 07-Feb-98 @ 12:03 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

Hilevelt

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kilo, have you tried Compact Split? I haven't, but it seems to be the best for archiving as well as chopping.

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Message 35/40 07-Feb-98 @ 07:41 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

FredB

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Anyone know of any sites with midi format drum patterns
and breakbeats?
Kilo, any chance of adding some to this site?

I like to use real drum samples, but find that
individually programming drum patterns is less
limiting...

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Message 36/40 09-Feb-98 @ 02:04 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

kilo

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mate....... if i had more time..........

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Message 37/40 17-Feb-98 @ 03:40 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

973943706

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The main rule when creating a breakbeat is use drum sounds from as many diffrent sources as you can, example:-

`tom-tom , and snare` from `past the mission`- tori amos

`loud bang sound & metal sound` from `b-side of poison record` - the prodigy

`amazing break` from ` b-sides of betty boo singles`

`loads of sounds` from chemical bros.(but too chemicaly)

`normal drum sounds` from old �3 jazz cd`s(best allround source)

and so on ...

just listen out for snares and bass drums during a record and sample them. Heres a basic 4-mat of a breakbeat :-

00-bassdrum-1
-
-
-
04-v quiet hi-hat
-
-
-
08snare-1
-
-
-
-hi-hat
-
-quiet snare-2
-
16-
-
-quiet snare-1
-
-bassdrum-2
-
-
-
24-snare-2
-
-
-
-hi-hat
-
-
-
and repeat !

you have a cool breakbeat.

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Message 38/40 19-Feb-98 @ 08:40 AM - RE: breakbeat techniques

andy

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yeah, you're not wrong about the �3 cheap jazz CD's

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Message 39/40 19-Feb-98 @ 07:18 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

Terrorbrain

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I hate those looped classic breaks, tho still I LOVE them on records and I still even use them myself (of course after filtering them thro 8 different filters and then cut in pieces). Also I hate sampling in my spare time, so anyone know where to get a large variety of hard bassdrum, snare and hihat sounds that sound original (no standard 909 sounds) but can be excellently used for breaks?

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Message 40/40 20-Feb-98 @ 06:12 PM - RE: breakbeat techniques

kilo

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why not grab all the 44.1's you can find on the web, then layer them, and create new kiks etc by re-sampling them.........

get the demo of Wavesurgeo...... it'll do what Re-cycle does for a fraction of the price when registered to save........ it'll also format for awe soundfonts !!...... brilliant programme from Neil Crane in the UK.....find it in the s/w section here... latest version from his site which is linked at the wavesurgeon page here....enjoy....and dont waste yer dosh with steinberg...

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