Forums - Live / PA / gigging
Subject: MIDI Sequencer for Live PA
Original Message Date: 12-Sep-02 @ 07:08 PM - MIDI Sequencer for Live PA
- Yamaha RS7000
- E-mu Proteus 2500
- Roland MC-80
- Akai MPC2000XL
I currently have Logic Audio (PC) running the Virus, Nord, uQ, Machinedrum, and EXS-24.
My live PA configuration would hopefully be a hardware MIDI sequencer driving the synths, and MIDI sync'd to the Machinedrum.
FYI - I've used the RM1x for a few years and while it was OK, I had a big issue with it... when switching patterns ("Styles"), it never switched to the next Style cleanly - there always seemed to be a bit of a delay.
Please comment on my evaluation of these units below.
I checked out the Proteus 2500 and RS7000 at Guitar Center yesterday. The P2500 seemed to switch patterns (i.e. when I initiated the "next pattern" manually) quite cleanly, however, none of the demo sequences were 4/4 and were of different tempos, so I couldn't tell for sure if it was a seamless transition. I believe the P2500 OS on their display model was 1.17.
On the other hand, the display XL-7 had a very noticeable delay/stutter when switching patterns, even when they were of the same tempo. I found this rather disturbing. The XL-7 OS was 1.00, which I have heard was bug-riddled.
Then I tested the RS7000. like the RM1x, it switches from Section to Section flawlessly. But when you switch from Style to Style, there was still a noticeable sonic gap between the two Styles, albeit shorter than the RM1x. Note - I had the quantize pattern setting in Global set to 1 measure.
Now the MC-80. I've never played with an MC-80 and have no clue if it switches from pattern to pattern seamlessly or if it even has the facilities to switch patterns manually. Anyone here have the MC-80? The MC-80 is quite expensive, so it better have some razzle dazzle or I'm going to pass right over it.
And the MPC-2000XL. It has the "Next Sequence" button and everything. It would seem the MPC-2000XL is ready to do switch patterns (and perhaps entire Songs?) live. But I've never been able to try it out... Anyone?
Thanks,
Scott
Message 11/38 13-Sep-02 @ 06:11 PM - RE: MIDI Sequencer for Live PA
The XL7's latest OS is fine, at least for switching betwixt styles. AND it's very affordable right now (699 new). The MC80 has no problems switching styles/sequences. Same for the MPCs.
Pizza
Message 12/38 13-Sep-02 @ 06:25 PM - RE: MIDI Sequencer for Live PA
I just read the 'Live Sequencing???' thread from 1998... hehehe... I must be behind the sequencing times ... :-) Hey is trance still in style? :@}
I've got a pretty good idea of what the MMT-8 can do now. Seems to be exactly what I want, except the memory limitations scare me... I like to program smooth volume and controller sweeps, so I'd have to get away from that and program that stuff hard into the synth patches as envelopes or LFOs.
What's interesting is that the modern MIDI sequencers can do bits and pieces of what the MMT-8 did (is it now *20* years ago?)...
The MC-505 can Megamix parts in between patterns.
The XP/MC-80 and Proteus 2500 and XL-7 16 track sequencers, but with multiple MIDI channels on each track...
That means with the Proteus 2500, I could run Track #1 as 16 external MIDI channels on MIDI A, Track #2 as 16 external MIDI channels on MIDI B, and Track #'s 3-16 to the internal Proteus synth engine...
I'm really really anxious to go back to the shop and experiment with the Pattern chaining again, this time I'm going to program some simple 4/4 patterns and switch between them... and not rely on the internal preset patterns as a proof of functionality.
Scott
Message 13/38 13-Sep-02 @ 06:29 PM - RE: MIDI Sequencer for Live PA
Message 14/38 13-Sep-02 @ 06:43 PM - RE: MIDI Sequencer for Live PA
Message 15/38 13-Sep-02 @ 08:02 PM - RE: MIDI Sequencer for Live PA
have a look. theyre VERY cheap
Message 16/38 13-Sep-02 @ 11:09 PM - RE: MIDI Sequencer for Live PA
Message 17/38 14-Sep-02 @ 12:18 AM - RE: MIDI Sequencer for Live PA
Ape
Message 18/38 14-Sep-02 @ 12:18 AM - RE: MIDI Sequencer for Live PA
As for the Proteus 2500: I've completed my test of O.S. V1.17. The results were disappointing.
What I did was create two sequences from scratch, both at 140BPM. Both sequences had different patch assignments for internal tracks 1-16A and 1-16B. I started with a basic 4/4 drum beat on channel 1 on each pattern, and switched back and forth with no problems or delays. But then, the real test. I recorded between 8 and 16 MIDI channels worth of MIDI note data in each pattern. Then I tried to switch back and forth between the two patterns. There was a very noticeable gap in between, I'd estimate it at around 100MS or so. Not what I was hoping for, with all of E-mu's "lightning fast processor" marketing. Maybe when the thing gets rollin, but what I need is 0-60, baby.
The bottom-line conclusion is that I can't expect to program full-on MIDI sequences in the Proteus 2500 and jump from one to another, DJ-style. Not going to happen, AFAICS.
Now the tough question. If I didn't use the internal synth engine, and instead had MIDI patch changes programmed for my external syths, would the delay/gap still be present. Several of you have said that it is not on other pieces of gear. But I'm not sure about that... because my Virus and uQ (especially) don't change patches instantaneously when I change patches on the front panel. There's usually a bit of loading delay.
So what I am getting at here.. is that with one sequencer and standard synths, and without clever patch changes pre-programmed or manually initiated, it would seem impossible to do a clean fade from song (Style) to song with the full-on MIDI rig.
What I'm sure I COULD DO with any of these units is MIDI up an RM1x or MMT-8 to an Akai sampler, for example, layout samples across the MIDI note range, and arrange tracks based on the sample layouts. In other words, song #1 would address MIDI notes 0-16, song #2 MIDI notes 1 and 17-32 (overlap for basedrum for example), etc. And simply avoid patch changes and all that.
Actually, I just thought of another way of doing it. The idea is to use 1 channel of Virus and 1 channel of uQ for each song. So Song #1 would address MIDI channel 1 on both synths, Song #2 MIDI channel 2 on both synths, etc. This way, there would be no patch changes to contend with.
Also, what n3 says would work too... use the machinedrum underneath while the main seq switches over. If I use the machinedrum as the master MIDI clock source, then absolutely yes. It's a solid plan also because the machinedrum holds mute assignments and FX settings when switching patterns. That's crucial for keeping the sonic transition smooth, without jumps in sound when I want to jump from pattern to pattern.
*phew*
OK, I'm putting MIDI sequencers out of my mind for now and am gonna enjoy what's left of my friday.
Thanks guys.
Scott
Message 19/38 14-Sep-02 @ 12:19 AM - RE: MIDI Sequencer for Live PA
Ape
Message 20/38 14-Sep-02 @ 12:26 AM - RE: MIDI Sequencer for Live PA
So if you have a 4-measure Bassline 'A' on Track 1 Channel 1, can you change Track 1 Channel 1 to play 4-measure Bassline 'B'?
Does it punch right into the new pattern on the fly, or can you quantize the switch to the end of the pattern or next measure?
The power thingie sounds kinda fickle. Do you have the Black MMT-8's? Have you ever tried an alternate power supply? (does it have a wallwart or internal?)
Thanks,
Scott
Pages: 1 2 3 4
There are 38 total messages for this topic
Reply to Thread
You need to register/login to use the forum.
Click here to Signup or Login !
[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]
Back to Forum