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Forums - Live / PA / gigging
Subject: Define "Live"
Original Message Date: 04-Apr-02 @ 04:21 PM - Define
What I'm on about has been touched on in a lot of threads of late. Just what constitues "live" in the sense of an electronic performance? Is playing a DAT live? How about using a DAT for backing while you play live bits over the top? How is using a sequencer all that different? How much manipulation of yer bits does it take before you're "live?"
I know there's a lot of differences, including artist vs audience perception. Just wonderin' what y'alls take on this was...
From me own perspective what satisfies my definition of "live" is no pre-recorded songs or backing, no individual sequence in excess of 32 measures in length, and doing something a little more involved than hitting a button or a knob once every ten minutes. That's not to say if you don't meet my "criteria" that you'd get no respect, far from it actually... I'm just giving out my own definition of what makes it LIVE for me, and that ain't necessarily what makes it good by any means....
Peace
I know there's a lot of differences, including artist vs audience perception. Just wonderin' what y'alls take on this was...
From me own perspective what satisfies my definition of "live" is no pre-recorded songs or backing, no individual sequence in excess of 32 measures in length, and doing something a little more involved than hitting a button or a knob once every ten minutes. That's not to say if you don't meet my "criteria" that you'd get no respect, far from it actually... I'm just giving out my own definition of what makes it LIVE for me, and that ain't necessarily what makes it good by any means....
Peace
Message 52/79 09-May-02 @ 07:05 PM - RE: Define
I've been touring around for a while lately and I've had this discussion over and over and I still haven't really made up my mind.
It's like the wizard of Oz. If the crowd digs it and you're diggin' it it's all good. But if the crowd knew that you had a DAT machine up your sleeve would they still dig it? I doubt it...
So I say, Don't cheat your audience with a tape or a fully sequenced song. Learn to play your trax off the cuff and respond to the mood of the party. I play with a partner now and we write the trax together, then we PLAY them together and it's never the same twice. It's given us some train wrecks but it's also produced magic.
I think that's what live is... magic. Which I know brings me right back to the wizard of Oz...
hmmmmm!
errata
It's like the wizard of Oz. If the crowd digs it and you're diggin' it it's all good. But if the crowd knew that you had a DAT machine up your sleeve would they still dig it? I doubt it...
So I say, Don't cheat your audience with a tape or a fully sequenced song. Learn to play your trax off the cuff and respond to the mood of the party. I play with a partner now and we write the trax together, then we PLAY them together and it's never the same twice. It's given us some train wrecks but it's also produced magic.
I think that's what live is... magic. Which I know brings me right back to the wizard of Oz...
hmmmmm!
errata
Message 53/79 10-May-02 @ 12:19 AM - RE: Define
Well when i play live i divide the sequence into the smalest parts possible then map them out over the keys on my rm1x. Then i can play wichever part of the arangement for as long as i like and in whatever order i like. i can also work with the mute memory to bring stuff in and out as i like and if there is room fore it i put the controller msgs on different parts so i can mute them out to and tweak live. mind u i mostly mix psy-trance this way. i think this is as live as it gets if u r alone on stage with your gear. But i am looking for some one to do gigs with so we could help each other out. But so far no luck. I would really like to jam with elektronik stuff but i dont really know how
Message 54/79 13-May-02 @ 10:33 PM - RE: Define
are ppl enjoying it? are you enjoying yourself? does anything else matter?
Message 55/79 14-May-02 @ 10:58 PM - RE: Define
Is it cool to bring a big pc to the stage?
That's what I have to do if I'm gonna do it *live*.. And then I have to throw around sequences in logic looking like a fool while sometimes tweaking Nova's lovely cutoff knob
I'm going to do som research on this live thing.. I really wanna do it.. starting with reading this enormous tread ;)
Cheers!
That's what I have to do if I'm gonna do it *live*.. And then I have to throw around sequences in logic looking like a fool while sometimes tweaking Nova's lovely cutoff knob
I'm going to do som research on this live thing.. I really wanna do it.. starting with reading this enormous tread ;)
Cheers!
Message 56/79 15-May-02 @ 07:39 PM - RE: Define
There's a million and 1 ways to do it.. You have to figure out what works best for you.
I've been thinking more and more about using a laptop for sequencing and sampling lately though.. It's so easy to assign hardware controllers to things in Sonar that I'm having a hard time ignoring its potential..
-Craig
I've been thinking more and more about using a laptop for sequencing and sampling lately though.. It's so easy to assign hardware controllers to things in Sonar that I'm having a hard time ignoring its potential..
-Craig
Message 57/79 15-May-02 @ 08:52 PM - RE: Define
That sounds like a good idea.. how much do you have to give for a decent laptop?
Message 58/79 15-May-02 @ 09:53 PM - RE: Define
Well, if all you're going to be doing is sequencing and basic audio, I'd say that anything above say, a 500mhz Celeron w/128MB would do. I don't honestly know for sure, because I've never tried Sonar on any other hardware than my home machine (700mhz Athlon w/512MB). Anything that's spec'd well enough to comfortably run Windows 2000 should do the trick.
Mind you I'm thinking no DXi/VSTi, basic mix, sampled parts rendered to audio, etc.. I mean, if you wanted to really do it on the cheap you could probably get away with a Pentium-II class machine running 98SE with 64MB running Cubasis or Cake 9 or Home Studio or something.. You could probably do a bang-up job with Orion on older hardware too. You're probably going to lose some of the realtime tweakability though. Sonar's good with assigning hardware controllers, so's Orion.
I guess it'd depend on what you wanted to get out of it. Me personally I'd like to be able to get everything set in the studio, then just basically load a bundle onto the lapptop - so I'd want the same basic setup, Sonar on Windows XP, or 2000..
-Craig
Mind you I'm thinking no DXi/VSTi, basic mix, sampled parts rendered to audio, etc.. I mean, if you wanted to really do it on the cheap you could probably get away with a Pentium-II class machine running 98SE with 64MB running Cubasis or Cake 9 or Home Studio or something.. You could probably do a bang-up job with Orion on older hardware too. You're probably going to lose some of the realtime tweakability though. Sonar's good with assigning hardware controllers, so's Orion.
I guess it'd depend on what you wanted to get out of it. Me personally I'd like to be able to get everything set in the studio, then just basically load a bundle onto the lapptop - so I'd want the same basic setup, Sonar on Windows XP, or 2000..
-Craig
Message 59/79 30-May-02 @ 12:16 PM - RE: Define
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I gave up on bringing the pc to shows. First of all, I am vain. No matter how good I might perceive my tracks to be, people still hear "Live PA" and they get curious, and spend the entire show looking at the rig, so I need to be able to deliver in that dept. Back when I was using the MPC (before she got stolen) that was not a prob, but I have played the last few shows with my pc. I get accused of having prerecorded the tracks and simply hitting play on Reason at the party, which is not what I do. Now I am running an a4000, some sound reinforcement, big mixer, oxygen 8, and rm1x. Plenty of blinky lights to keep the retards entertained so that I can focus more on throwing down some ILL, LIVE techno instead of worrying about wtf people are saying. Maybe it's just my weakness that I'm that vain, but I'm not big on that kind of negative word-of-mouth publicity.
Also, realize that PC's like to crash at the worst times, esp. in hot clubs. I have had TOO much experience with this to let Craig do it without fair warning. Craig, I dunno if you have had exp. with the live PC thing before, but be careful bro. I know you are using an rm1x to sequence live right now, and that you want to ditch it for the pc setup. I did the EXACT same thing, and wanted to hit myself for a long time after for doing that. Too many fuckups during parties.
Please excuse my rambling, but Live work is more than half the reason I produce techno, and I gotta give out all the advice I can collect from personal experience.
peace,
- Nick
Also, realize that PC's like to crash at the worst times, esp. in hot clubs. I have had TOO much experience with this to let Craig do it without fair warning. Craig, I dunno if you have had exp. with the live PC thing before, but be careful bro. I know you are using an rm1x to sequence live right now, and that you want to ditch it for the pc setup. I did the EXACT same thing, and wanted to hit myself for a long time after for doing that. Too many fuckups during parties.
Please excuse my rambling, but Live work is more than half the reason I produce techno, and I gotta give out all the advice I can collect from personal experience.
peace,
- Nick
Message 60/79 30-May-02 @ 02:48 PM - RE: Define
Nick, thanks for sharing your experience.. A laptop live is something I'm considering, basically because I'm tired of hauling 2 racks, an RM1X, and a Nord Lead keys to gigs 
With the lappy, I could get rid of one of the racks and the RM1X, but I see your point.
Right now I don't trust what I'm doing to a computer live either. Times are changing though...
-Craig
With the lappy, I could get rid of one of the racks and the RM1X, but I see your point.Right now I don't trust what I'm doing to a computer live either. Times are changing though...
-Craig
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