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Forums - Live / PA / gigging
Subject: Define "Live"
Original Message Date: 04-Apr-02 @ 04:21 PM - Define
What I'm on about has been touched on in a lot of threads of late. Just what constitues "live" in the sense of an electronic performance? Is playing a DAT live? How about using a DAT for backing while you play live bits over the top? How is using a sequencer all that different? How much manipulation of yer bits does it take before you're "live?"
I know there's a lot of differences, including artist vs audience perception. Just wonderin' what y'alls take on this was...
From me own perspective what satisfies my definition of "live" is no pre-recorded songs or backing, no individual sequence in excess of 32 measures in length, and doing something a little more involved than hitting a button or a knob once every ten minutes. That's not to say if you don't meet my "criteria" that you'd get no respect, far from it actually... I'm just giving out my own definition of what makes it LIVE for me, and that ain't necessarily what makes it good by any means....
Peace
I know there's a lot of differences, including artist vs audience perception. Just wonderin' what y'alls take on this was...
From me own perspective what satisfies my definition of "live" is no pre-recorded songs or backing, no individual sequence in excess of 32 measures in length, and doing something a little more involved than hitting a button or a knob once every ten minutes. That's not to say if you don't meet my "criteria" that you'd get no respect, far from it actually... I'm just giving out my own definition of what makes it LIVE for me, and that ain't necessarily what makes it good by any means....
Peace
Message 11/79 07-Apr-02 @ 03:38 AM - RE: Define
'crap loser world we live in of decaying personal ability..'
!
!
Message 12/79 07-Apr-02 @ 03:51 AM - RE: Define
actually PA = public address as in "Public Address System" 
crap loser world
crap loser world
Message 14/79 07-Apr-02 @ 10:53 AM - RE: Define
Give me a gig. I'll show you live. I promise. I'm not afraid! If you've got the balls and the skillz and you're feeling it, maybe we can even.........JAM!! Oh! I said it! heehee!
Folks need to get the heads out of their own ego filled asses and pick up on the Jazz concepts of interaction, improvising with a group of others, and spontanaety. I'm still a Jazz cat at heart and just cuz I'm using electronic instruments and tools doesn't take away from that fact. Every player has their signiture 'licks' that they can throw in at just the right place to make the difference between meat and potatoes, and a slammin tune. The difference is that in the 'Jazz scence' you HAVE to listen to other players and interact with them, and your ego, and MIDI sync are not enough to keep a piece going. You have to think more collectively, as it is the interaction between folks that makes a piece work. Most people in the electronic scence are not willing to put their egos that far in check and really place themselves in a group concsiousness with others for sake of the tune. DJ's and musicians alike. We could be so much more, and take things so much further. I see the future in what we do if we are to keep this artform as viable as a much more interactive and collaborative effort, using more than one shaman at a time to create the magic that inspres the feelings in others to move their bodies in an expressive manner on the dancefloor and elsewhere. Thoughts?
Ape
Folks need to get the heads out of their own ego filled asses and pick up on the Jazz concepts of interaction, improvising with a group of others, and spontanaety. I'm still a Jazz cat at heart and just cuz I'm using electronic instruments and tools doesn't take away from that fact. Every player has their signiture 'licks' that they can throw in at just the right place to make the difference between meat and potatoes, and a slammin tune. The difference is that in the 'Jazz scence' you HAVE to listen to other players and interact with them, and your ego, and MIDI sync are not enough to keep a piece going. You have to think more collectively, as it is the interaction between folks that makes a piece work. Most people in the electronic scence are not willing to put their egos that far in check and really place themselves in a group concsiousness with others for sake of the tune. DJ's and musicians alike. We could be so much more, and take things so much further. I see the future in what we do if we are to keep this artform as viable as a much more interactive and collaborative effort, using more than one shaman at a time to create the magic that inspres the feelings in others to move their bodies in an expressive manner on the dancefloor and elsewhere. Thoughts?
Ape
Message 15/79 07-Apr-02 @ 12:03 PM - RE: Define
thoughts? jazz players were ing MUSICIANS
not to detract from anyone here's skillz, but...all this SW, and sequencers, etc...have made it WAY too easy to make music
I for one know SHIT about "rules"...and I dont mean to say that I feel I should adhere to said rules, but...the lack of knowledge that I am PAINFULLY aware of in myself...is blatantly missing in so many people's efforts...
its just too ing easy now, and so few of us COULD truly "jam"...I dont know if I could
part of it would be self-oppression, one of the saddest characteristics of human nature. But the other part would just be lack of skill (and/or lack of experience...does experience make up for skill sometimes?)
I just..pongoid...I dont even know you but based on what you've said over the course of the years, you have a life that was flooded with musicality...playing jazz bass, being in truly spontaneous environments....
far too many of us, me included, were brought up in fairly rigid surroundings...and the concept of "letting go" is a foreign one. Of course I can only truly speak for myself, but...I do make contact with other humans occasionaly and the only time the ones I know seem to truly LET GO is after 5 pints of guinness (sp?)...
its like...SO FUCKING PENT UP!!!! so disheartening.
and yes, the answer is nothing more than COUNTEROFFENSE. just GO, as Jack would say, but HOW
how the ?
and part of that answer is learning. truly learning how music works...learning the rules in order to break them. I mean, sure..I can sit in front of a PC or even a HW seq and put stuff together. I have ears. I can tell if things sound good together, apparently well enough so that other people dont fall on the ground and convulse spastically when they hear my sounds, but the buck stops there. Put me, and you, in a room, and its gonna be a while before anything I do is "freeform" and or "spontaneous"
first, I believe I would be a bit intimidated, but second...I would FREEZE
only for a while, granted, and its AFTER that "for a while" where things would get interesting...
my point is...how many people here really know anything about truly meshing? about "jamming"? about "music"? Sure..we know we love it, and we know that deep down inside we LONG for being able to make those sounds that caused us to fall in love with this stuff in the first place (hence the 8inggazillion "how do I make this sound" threads) but...its...ahhh ..its just such a reach...or...maybe its jsut a few rungs up the ladder, but those rungs are so ing far apart!!!!!
sorry, me, just feelin a bit doubtful. Its either all SO much easier than it seems to me, or Im just missing the gist of it for some reason
not to detract from anyone here's skillz, but...all this SW, and sequencers, etc...have made it WAY too easy to make music
I for one know SHIT about "rules"...and I dont mean to say that I feel I should adhere to said rules, but...the lack of knowledge that I am PAINFULLY aware of in myself...is blatantly missing in so many people's efforts...
its just too ing easy now, and so few of us COULD truly "jam"...I dont know if I could
part of it would be self-oppression, one of the saddest characteristics of human nature. But the other part would just be lack of skill (and/or lack of experience...does experience make up for skill sometimes?)
I just..pongoid...I dont even know you but based on what you've said over the course of the years, you have a life that was flooded with musicality...playing jazz bass, being in truly spontaneous environments....
far too many of us, me included, were brought up in fairly rigid surroundings...and the concept of "letting go" is a foreign one. Of course I can only truly speak for myself, but...I do make contact with other humans occasionaly and the only time the ones I know seem to truly LET GO is after 5 pints of guinness (sp?)...
its like...SO FUCKING PENT UP!!!! so disheartening.
and yes, the answer is nothing more than COUNTEROFFENSE. just GO, as Jack would say, but HOW
how the ?
and part of that answer is learning. truly learning how music works...learning the rules in order to break them. I mean, sure..I can sit in front of a PC or even a HW seq and put stuff together. I have ears. I can tell if things sound good together, apparently well enough so that other people dont fall on the ground and convulse spastically when they hear my sounds, but the buck stops there. Put me, and you, in a room, and its gonna be a while before anything I do is "freeform" and or "spontaneous"
first, I believe I would be a bit intimidated, but second...I would FREEZE
only for a while, granted, and its AFTER that "for a while" where things would get interesting...
my point is...how many people here really know anything about truly meshing? about "jamming"? about "music"? Sure..we know we love it, and we know that deep down inside we LONG for being able to make those sounds that caused us to fall in love with this stuff in the first place (hence the 8inggazillion "how do I make this sound" threads) but...its...ahhh ..its just such a reach...or...maybe its jsut a few rungs up the ladder, but those rungs are so ing far apart!!!!!
sorry, me, just feelin a bit doubtful. Its either all SO much easier than it seems to me, or Im just missing the gist of it for some reason
Message 16/79 07-Apr-02 @ 01:41 PM - RE: Define
yes PA does mean what you said, BUT also in the sphere of club appearances it means PERSONAL APPEARANCE - it's really only used in the dancehall/reggea scene 'LIVE PA' on a clubnight promotion means a live personal appearance where the artists sings over a backing tape, usualy to promote a record, or just to appear and boost the night... y'know?.. supporting & enhancing local black business enterprise and all that Garvey, Bookker T, Malcolm Little socialist stuff????... you could get Frankie Paul for about 500-600 quid I reckon.. mind you, in 1981 you could get Susie & the Banshee's for 600 quid!
LADIES!!!... Free entry & a free bottle of champagne before midnight for party of 4!!!
LADIES!!!... Free entry & a free bottle of champagne before midnight for party of 4!!!
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 17/79 07-Apr-02 @ 03:20 PM - RE: Define
WE ARE ING MUSCICIANS!!!!! It is on us to carry on or modify, or break, or just drop those time-honored traditions for our purposes. Rather than trying to find fault with using gear, just use it. If you don't work fast, you know what you need to work on. You have the power. You may not have the courage, but you have the means. You know what you need to work on. Work on it. As long as you breath it's not too late.
Message 18/79 07-Apr-02 @ 03:35 PM - RE: Define
i'll jam
never done it midi'ed. the first (and maybe the only) time i've rellyrellyrelly jammed (as in jellied..) was after a 24 hour noise session. very tired.. guy and i playing simple notes on guitars or basses back and forth. ingredients: a modicum of fluency with your instrument and a focus/appreciation for the product (well, that clears that up :p) i think i had exhausted my ego by that point (chaotic anti-jam) and was taken off-guard since the session was about timbral exploration (ie. we weren't using guitars) and i hardly expected anything conventional to be pleasant. it was just the end of the time. i was surprised! proper aural sex.
i'd LOVE to synth jam (haven't met anyone who knows their instruments.) my ears won't take the decibels of dance though. but if you're in town, i'll wear some plugs :p
never done it midi'ed. the first (and maybe the only) time i've rellyrellyrelly jammed (as in jellied..) was after a 24 hour noise session. very tired.. guy and i playing simple notes on guitars or basses back and forth. ingredients: a modicum of fluency with your instrument and a focus/appreciation for the product (well, that clears that up :p) i think i had exhausted my ego by that point (chaotic anti-jam) and was taken off-guard since the session was about timbral exploration (ie. we weren't using guitars) and i hardly expected anything conventional to be pleasant. it was just the end of the time. i was surprised! proper aural sex.
i'd LOVE to synth jam (haven't met anyone who knows their instruments.) my ears won't take the decibels of dance though. but if you're in town, i'll wear some plugs :p
Message 20/79 07-Apr-02 @ 09:45 PM - RE: Define
Jamming IS the shit... I actually dunna care much for jazz, just a personal taste thing, but the idea of improv, that I do dig. That's how I learned music, sitting in bluegrass "rounds" where you might have fifteen or twenty people playing guitars, fiddles, mandolins, etc., etc. Taught me how to sit tight and keep shut, as well as teaching me how to jump in head first when my turn came up... Bluegrass, blues, and eventually rock, all of 'em taught me a lot about different ways of jamming and such. When I moved over to the electronic side, it was a natural outgrowth to follow the same sort of approach... My brand of "dance" as well as my live dark ambient gigs, pretty largely all improv (but you gotta understand, "all improv" means I've run through lots of variations and lots of practice... it ain't like I wake up the day of the show with a blank mind and just go up on stage and await "inspiration...").
I'm always down for jamming anytime anyone might be in the area. Same goes if you catch me elsewhere, tell me where and when, and if I can make it, I'd love to do it... I rarely get the opportunity to jam with others, so when the opportunity pops up, I'm all for it...
Peace
I'm always down for jamming anytime anyone might be in the area. Same goes if you catch me elsewhere, tell me where and when, and if I can make it, I'd love to do it... I rarely get the opportunity to jam with others, so when the opportunity pops up, I'm all for it...
Peace
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