Forums - Mixing & FX
Subject: Why is digital less warm than....
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Original Message Date: 28-Feb-02 @ 09:02 PM - Why is digital less warm than....
We all hear things like, digital isn't as warm as analog, and while I'm not here to argue that specifically, did you ever think about why that is? Outside of some of the basic physical properties, you'd think the two mediums wouldn't be that divergent.... and in some sense, maybe they're not. Now I'm gonna try a little heresy...
Maybe the reason mixes from analog sounds warmer, more musical, whatever, is: our techniques for recording, mixing, etc., are mostly built and modeled on analog experience. We've learned techniques for, say mic placement, that were establised in the analog realm... maybe we should be evaluating new ways of doing things....?
I mean think about one of the most basic differences between the two mediums, the level meter... Many of us that came from the analog world were sorely surprised to find out we couldn't push the LEDs "past the red" on a digital board... Now once I learned how to use digital LEDs, mt life, and my mixes, sounded better...
I'm not really trying to lay out new "rules" of digital recording/mixing, but just bouncing the idea off you all. If you have any experience with what I'm on about here, by all means share it. If you got a "warm sound" from all digital equipment, what was your methodology? Why do you think it worked that way? If you captured a digital take of a vocalist that just simply shimmers, did you do it the "traditional" (i.e., basically as it's always been done on analog equipment) way, or did you find a technique that is exclusive to digital?
Anyhoos, just some thoughts....
Peace All
Message 141/157 19-Apr-02 @ 10:15 PM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
the whole subject is odd tho because in the dig' audio areana it is filled with people extolling the virtues of bigger-rates equaling a 'better' sound.... then as a contradiction we have older lo-res samplers.... they sound 'better' to my ears, so i guess in the end all is subjective?...
I cant see the point in our game of having 100db of dynamic range when we crush it all down and use only about 5-10db of range at all if that (except for ambient styles mebbe & ballad pop productions, but even then the use of dynamic range is very low in most commercial music)
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Message 142/157 20-Apr-02 @ 07:17 PM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
Message 143/157 20-Apr-02 @ 09:21 PM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
if this is the case then using only 10db would result in the noise floor resting at -90db.
I dont know if this is accurate.
Message 144/157 20-Apr-02 @ 11:36 PM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
Message 145/157 21-Apr-02 @ 11:56 AM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
Message 146/157 23-Apr-02 @ 02:31 AM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
Message 147/157 24-Apr-02 @ 11:07 PM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
Message 148/157 25-Apr-02 @ 02:48 AM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
hey K , those emu emaxes really sound as good as the s900/950? I have seen them so cheap, I may get a couple just to run some slice up loops from.
Message 149/157 25-Apr-02 @ 10:03 AM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
- "so why hasn't some brilliant programmer figured out how to do 12bit on a pc?" well, if you record with yer peaks between -24-18dBfs you will use only 12bits on a 16bit soundcard hence 12 bit recording. but its got fuck all to do with the sound quality of those old samplers. EMAX´s sound comes from its real analog filers, not from 12bit algorithms.
- "those emu emaxes really sound as good as the s900/950?" again, EMAX´s sound comes from its analog filters. S900/950 sound pretty poor compared to modern samplers. i dont think there´s a reason why you´d wanna use them, except if you´re on a low budget of course.
- "old fm is great sound. It's warm, and it's digital" man, if there´s any characteristic to FM is clear digital precision. why do you think it works best for clangy bell-like sounds? if you´re perceiving sounds as warm, try the same sound on a suitable analog and tell me which one is "warmer".
Just go and buy that DM24 for its good connectivity to Pro Tools, willya :P
Message 150/157 25-Apr-02 @ 02:28 PM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
as for the analog filters being the sound, off again.They add to the warmth, but run a 16bit sampler through a analog filter and you still don't have that sound 12bit sound. A eIII sounds awsome, but it can't do the gritty break beat drum samples of the emu sp-12 beacause it's 16bit. It's to clean. It's the lower sample rate used, and the compression etc that softens the higher frequencies and attenuates the lows which is why drums sound so good at 12 bit. Just ask every damn producer who has been around since the 80's. Norman Cook, William Orbit, all the hip hop artist. They still pay over a grand for sp-1200's. It's for a reason! The sound...
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