Forums - Synths & synthesis
Subject: Roland - emulate or innovate?
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Original Message 1/73 03-May-02 @ 11:49 PM - Roland - emulate or innovate?
is Roland still the innovater?
Message 2/73 04-May-02 @ 12:01 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
god, I can talk some complete bollocks sometimes
Message 3/73 04-May-02 @ 12:03 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
god knows how I managed that one, I definately typed it out.
Message 4/73 06-May-02 @ 09:24 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
It's unique. I like it.
Message 5/73 06-May-02 @ 09:48 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
my father could be wrong...
Message 6/73 06-May-02 @ 10:35 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 8/73 07-May-02 @ 02:28 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Influx!
Did you discover that BT is a major Shareholder in Roland or summink???
;) <---Naughty, silly Michael.
I think software shows the most innovation. Actually that and the Neuron. Seen that Neuron??? It seems like a really cool concept, but they demo's I've heard are a little sucky. And it's expensive. Doesn't matter though, does it? Everything comes at a price.
Pro tools is innovative, isn't it?
Michael.
Message 9/73 07-May-02 @ 04:41 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
oh...Jupiter6/8..>SICK<
Message 10/73 07-May-02 @ 04:08 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 11/73 07-May-02 @ 06:56 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 12/73 07-May-02 @ 07:51 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 13/73 07-May-02 @ 08:49 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 14/73 07-May-02 @ 09:33 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 15/73 07-May-02 @ 09:56 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 16/73 10-May-02 @ 05:05 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Roland makes crap now. Nothing works as it should and it's all cheap! Don't even SAY 505 to me. I work with a guy who had one. He sold it and says one day he'll buy another, so he can piss on it! Terrible company with terrible products...
errata
Message 17/73 11-May-02 @ 06:43 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
roland stuff was , in my opinion the best stuff to ever be made for dance music, but it was never the first. They just took other ideas and refined them.
The groove stuff is all crap IMO. The filters on the 303,505, 305 are crap, and the sounds are stock pcm. They are notorius for hype. Roland sells hype, not quality equiptment like they used to.
Message 18/73 13-May-02 @ 05:42 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
i'd say that's pretty damn innovative -- too bad the "underdevelloped" countries receiving US "aid" aren't all as innovative.
Message 19/73 13-May-02 @ 07:03 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
That was pretty racist and ignorant of you.
The Japanese beat the entire US auto industry _cold_ in the '70s and '80s by, er, making cars that, what, oh yeah: work. Quality control is still light years ahead on any Japanese car over the American equivalent, step inside one of each and if you can't tell diff. in quality you should, well, er, just go buy a Ford Exploder.
In the musical instrument/synthesis arena, Roland was doing high-quality modular synthesis while the rest of the world was still digging peat out of the bog to cook dinner with. Roland had stable oscillators long before that long-sought-for goal ever came to light elsewhere. Korg had many innovations as well. Yamaha, ditto. Can you say DX7? Where were all those brilliant American dim bulbs when the Japanese saw fit to license the work being done at Stanford?
And oh, er, forgot to mention, the Japanese are light-years ahead of us in supercomputing now.
As well as the fact that the Japanese have brought SIMD to the mass-market while the brilliant Americans are still struggling with segmented-memory Neolithic X86 architecture (PS2 vs. Xbox).
Jeez! what an ignorant comment you made there!
Try reading, you may find you enjoy it, even just as a part-time hobby.
rt
Message 20/73 13-May-02 @ 07:07 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
in many ways he is right. They are imitators (and they usually improve things drastically!)
but...damn...racist? how the hell did you come up with that? just because someone mentions a certain group and points out characteristics theyre racist?
give me a break
Message 21/73 13-May-02 @ 07:24 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
BTW, 'bout the filters... please stress 'MC' when saying 303.
Thank you.
Message 22/73 13-May-02 @ 09:29 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
I have close friends who ARE japanese and have actually told me the same thing that brett wrote. now, whether or not he is correct is another story (what's the TB 303 and copy of?), but his statement was hardly hateful or anything.
my wife's Korean friends named their dog "roland" in honor of the legendary beatboxes...my wife usually calls him "loland". big trouble with l's and r's. and that's funny, dammit. no harm done.
lighten up. there are plenty of other ways to gang up on brett ;)
Message 23/73 14-May-02 @ 08:49 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
I guess as D said it Roland sorta stopped being innovative back in the juno/jupiter/TR days?
was there some hypercreative design group behind that stuff?
Damn..time for a history lesson. Wheres the old men? Damballah? Pongoid (wait..hes younger than me) MINDSPAWN?!?!?!
xoxos?
Message 24/73 14-May-02 @ 03:02 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Hey RT. Shut the up. It really pisses me off when people do what you do. If you feel you have differing information - present it without the insults. Why is it so difficult for people to have a discussion and share information without getting their panties in a knot?
Message 25/73 14-May-02 @ 03:06 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
But bear in mind that the Pacific Rim countries that are exploding into the American auto and consumer electronis market are heavily supported by their governments. To my knowledge, the Japanese government doesn't do it as much as they used to, but the Koreans are building products with little regard for profitability. Whether that is right or wrong is a different discussion.
I think Roland has done a little bit of both. And I think the groove-machines are TOTALLY innovative. Developing a user friendly front-end has created a musical revolution, no doubt about it. And even if they weren't the first ones to do it - they brought it to the mass-market. That is certainly something.
Message 26/73 14-May-02 @ 09:07 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
what's wrong with government subsities? not "fair"? i don't really see the difference between the two approaches; it's just a question of how the businesses receive the money. DIRECTLY from the gov (given to the business via subsity) or INDIRECTLY from the gov (not taken from the gov via low taxes).
Message 27/73 14-May-02 @ 09:11 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
i just don't see where right and wrong enter into it... so now it's wrong to NOT be motivated be profits? why? cause it doesn't fit into YOUR (country's) "philosophy"? why not just ban all trade with other countries?
Message 28/73 14-May-02 @ 09:15 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 29/73 14-May-02 @ 09:19 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 30/73 14-May-02 @ 11:17 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 31/73 15-May-02 @ 12:00 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 32/73 15-May-02 @ 12:04 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
I know it's nice to make generalizations, but I don't think it's any better to say that "the Japanese are just great imitators and have no creativity" than to say that "the Jews are all money grubbers" or that "the Irish are all drunkards." "Rednecks in the South marry their sisters." etc.
I consider all of those above generalizations offensive, that's the long and short of it. And I don't appreciate people slingin' _any_ of 'em around, or a host like 'em. That's, er.... racist, basically. Sorry. But it is. Or the equivalent (anti-Semitic, prejudiced against the Irish, rednecks, etc.).
rt
Message 33/73 15-May-02 @ 12:39 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
'sides...man..are you really one of those oversensitive PC types that cringes at the mere mention of race? Bretts post was clearly not from that angle, and you just flipped out about it with the blah blah blah racist shit
sure...the belief that one group is superior is a little ridiculous, and harmful actions based on that belief are unacceptable, but saying a certain group tends to behave in a certain manner, well...perfectly valid!
stereotypes DO have a foundation, you know.
Message 34/73 15-May-02 @ 05:20 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
pony slaystation.
Message 35/73 15-May-02 @ 10:33 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 36/73 16-May-02 @ 12:25 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
I'll grab my hat.
Message 38/73 16-May-02 @ 03:36 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 39/73 16-May-02 @ 08:12 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
oh dude...steve...engrish! Off to have a raff!
Message 40/73 16-May-02 @ 08:36 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
I always thought this was adorable...I ended up marrying one of my engrish students.
Message 41/73 16-May-02 @ 08:57 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 42/73 16-May-02 @ 09:23 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
actually "nips" is considered offensive in the US, I think b/c it was common during WWII when they were rather unpopular here. so is "japs", not to be confused with "JAPS", the acronym, which is also officially "offensive" though rather useful in the NY area.
Message 43/73 16-May-02 @ 09:53 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 44/73 17-May-02 @ 12:20 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
You have no idea how funny it was to say 'wap please' when you were drunk.
fuckit, sitars taken my hat.
Message 45/73 17-May-02 @ 01:05 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
anyways.. i dunno the connotations of names... Nip's, Argies, Scot's... but some names work with an 's' and other don't, that's the thing... you can't say for brazilians... Bra's ! - ?? - 'Those fucking Crazy Brazilians', yes!!!.. it perfectly describes Brazilians !!
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 46/73 17-May-02 @ 02:12 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
I call asians charlie sometimes. Anyone wanna jump on me for that one? seems reasonable
Message 47/73 17-May-02 @ 02:57 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Oh, you'll say, it's okay to make fun of rich people because...
Oh, it's okay, they're just rednecks.
Oh, it's okay, they're just Jewish.
See? One of those statements doesn't sound right. But what's the difference?
Message 48/73 17-May-02 @ 09:58 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
no, hold on, let me think about that last one again ...
Message 49/73 17-May-02 @ 01:03 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 50/73 17-May-02 @ 08:17 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
I just live by the motto, "commit random acts of unpleasantness."
I like to make people uncomfortable every now and then, when they're sliding into the all-too-easy-to-say slurs.
It's one thing to make an occasional joke with seeming-prejudicial overtones, when it's clear you're just playing around. It's another thing to throw a slur as part of an at least semi-serious discussion.
Okay, taking purple and yellow uniform off.... have fun!
rt
Message 51/73 17-May-02 @ 09:36 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
but..not 'all' of ANY 'group' will be have the same..so...
Message 52/73 17-May-02 @ 10:44 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
the dutch are a bunch of crazy dope smokers and the austrians are just a load of nazis.
Message 53/73 17-May-02 @ 11:30 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
A. bar manager
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 54/73 18-May-02 @ 12:04 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 55/73 18-May-02 @ 09:07 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
I guess most of you have read it..
http://sound-on-sound2.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=215094572&f=884099644&m=2883073704
I know it has been posted before..
Roland innovative? I'm definately selling my mc-303 now hehe.. no, I'm keeping it. I was positively surprised the other day when I toyed with it again.. mm, very nice drum samples. Who needs V-drums anyway?
Message 56/73 19-May-02 @ 02:57 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Influx - you sayin' I'm old you young buck?=)
Anyhoos, damballah is spot on about the release of the various boxes. Stuff like the Arps and Moogs were always pretty nifty, but in the 80s you had a bunch of stuff come out that really didna have much of a market at the time. I mean the first time I saw a TB303 (83-84?), the music store fella called it a replacement bassist... He turned it on and played a few very lame sounds and I walked off chuckling that no one in their right mind was gonna pay $350 for that crap.... those words have haunted me a lot in the past few years...=)
The Junos were pretty cool, more so when the whole alternative/new wave thing hit. But the real shit in the 80s seemed to be the Roland D50 and the Yammy DX7. ROMplers were THE rage in the mid-late 80s. I think if there was a time when Roland was generally thought of as innovative at the time of a release, it was probably with the ROMplers, LA synthesis, etc...
An' then it happened. Some crazy fool went and tweaked the knobs on the 303 and the rest is history....
Message 57/73 19-May-02 @ 06:43 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Even the juno was the japanese answer to the prohpet5. The 303 was pretty out there. I have to say it was inovative, but there were allready other accompanymetn devices being made, drum and bass. What the 303 bcame was just a fluke. Look at what is coming out of China now. Damn good mics. I got a studio projects c1, thing sounds so damn good. But as usual, it's a knock of the Nuemann u87. As for automobile development, that is funny, most Japanese asthetic designers go to the school in cali to study , and the engineers are prodominantly educated here in the states. I saw a show on the dicovery channel with he head of Nissan talking about how they develop new cars. American ideas influence them so much, as well as European philosophy and engineering methods.
and to end, Realrtrance, you make it really easy to prove a point when say stuff like this
"Where were all those brilliant American dim bulbs when the Japanese saw fit to license the work being done at Stanford? "
last I checked, Stanford wasn't in Japan!
they took an idea or concept from somewhere else and made it theirs. It's what they do. They rarly take on the role of vangaurd in a market segament(very smart) and instead learn from the mistakes of the early entrees and come in with a better product at a lower price. It's not racism, it's Economics on a very academic level.
Message 58/73 19-May-02 @ 09:45 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
who else? canadians ... hehehe
Message 60/73 19-May-02 @ 03:46 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 61/73 19-May-02 @ 05:36 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Ape
Message 63/73 19-May-02 @ 07:35 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 64/73 19-May-02 @ 08:39 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 65/73 19-May-02 @ 08:41 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 66/73 19-May-02 @ 10:20 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 67/73 19-May-02 @ 10:31 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 68/73 19-May-02 @ 11:53 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Pongoid, dude...the venom in your responses is shocking sometimes. Its like you dont even need a trigger youre just walking around PISSED OFF
cant say I dont empthize, but...just seems directly DISproportionate sometimes.
Message 69/73 20-May-02 @ 01:16 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
I disagree w/your opinion on the SH-32; it's a wonderful little box.
Roland's OSes are a little like Wordstar, they make ABSOLUTELY no sense initially but prove brilliantly efficient and logical once you really get to the point of mastering the instrument.
The only stupid thing I've seen, in my opinion, is, why oh why did they leave a numeric keypad off the XV-5080?! I mean, on the XP-80 you can go _anywhere_ in a huge sample bank in seconds with a numeric keypad; obviously that was too much fun so they left everyone with a push-knob to work with instead on their top-o'-the-line synth.
Oh well, everyone has a problem. Mine is I'm too old to enjoy a banana fudge sundae any more without consquences worse than going on a drinking binge. If that were different, I'd be a whole different person. Oh well.
VP9000 is going for pastry cakes these days, is it any worth looking at? I'm assuming Roland will have wised up and maybe planned to put a filter and a coupla more voices on it for a new release some day....
rt
Message 70/73 22-May-02 @ 04:35 PM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 71/73 23-May-02 @ 12:52 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
that was funny.
try a new vanilla coke!
Message 72/73 23-May-02 @ 01:08 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
Message 73/73 23-May-02 @ 01:49 AM - RE: Roland - emulate or innovate?
i like old roland. except my srv-3030, which i also like. i guess its just the instruments that they make now that suck.
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