Help! My bass sounds crap! - Synths & synthesis forums

Forums - Synths & synthesis

Subject: Help! My bass sounds crap!

Viewing all 32 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3 4

Original Message 1/32 29-Oct-02 @ 03:44 PM Edit: 29-Oct-02 | 03:45 PM - Help! My bass sounds crap!

Steve Roughley

Posts: 1178

Link?: No link

File?: No file

Until recently, I have mainly created my bass with my EM1 electribe, but now that I am trying to synthesise it, I am having a whole lot of trouble. Whenever I try to get a tight, smooth and punchy bass out of my Virus, it ends up sounding hollow, dirty and generally sloppy. I am alright with leads and pads etc., but bass is truly eluding me.

Does anyone have any tips for getting my bass to sound tight and growly? Pongoid?

Thanks in advance.

Steve.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 2/32 29-Oct-02 @ 03:46 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

milan

Posts: 5701

Link?: Link

File?: No file

you�re gonna hate me now, but if you use the search function you will find a LOT on the subject. in fact it was discussed just some time ago.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 3/32 29-Oct-02 @ 03:53 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

Steve Roughley

Posts: 1178

Link?: No link

File?: No file

Oh god, I forgot about the search function! I did the View last 365 days and couldn't find anything. Oh well.

Cheers Milan!

Steve.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 4/32 29-Oct-02 @ 07:00 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

psylichon

Posts: 4573

Link?: Link

File?: No file

I would also point out that if you're trying to compete with bass on pro albums, you're going to have to consider processing. EQ, compression, sub-bass extenders, and magnetic tape (or simulation) all contribute to a bass' meatiness. Don't think you can do it all with your synth. Lots of times I'll leave my bass a little lacking while tracking if I'm having trouble with it. If I can't beef it up after tracking then I'll take the time to edit the patch some more.

psylichon

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 5/32 29-Oct-02 @ 07:43 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

Steve Roughley

Posts: 1178

Link?: No link

File?: No file

OK, I've had a good look through the search results (about 300 pages were returned - sheesh!) but couldn't find an exact answere to my problem. Most of the posts that I read were about getting big fat basslines and chunky sub-bass and big hollow basses, etc. But I am after just the opposite. It's quite hard to explain, but I'll have a go.

Basically, I find that I can come up with the afore mentioned bass sounds, but I fall down when I try to make the base very tight, smooth and punchy. I can do this easily with the ROM sounds from my electribe (see my track BatMoBeats for reference if you wish), by filtering, eq'ing, compressing, etc. This isn't what's troubling me. The trouble is whenever I try to synthesise a bass from scratch it always seems to sound too fat, hollow, noisy and wide. I've tried mixing it down and doing all the usual processing, but even that doesn't help. I can get tight leads and pads etc., but I seemed to have missed something major when it comes to synthesising bass.

Could anyone give me a good starting point for synthesising tight bass. Just the basics (filter settings, and oscilator settings.). I would be soooo greatful.

Thanks again.

Steve.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 6/32 29-Oct-02 @ 07:44 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

xoxos

Posts: 6231

Link?: Link

File?: No file

i usually try for a simpler waveform.. something fuller, more vibration.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 7/32 29-Oct-02 @ 08:39 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

psylichon

Posts: 4573

Link?: Link

File?: No file

Yeah, use softened saw waves. Start with one oscillator. I usually add a bit of "filter eq" by dialing down the cutoff of a LPF with a bit of resonance down near the fundamental tone. This adds a nice bump and keeps the tone simple. If you want higher harmonics, try another lpf in parallel with the cutoff a bit higher and a touch of resonance. Of course, both filters should track the keyboard to keep the freq response smooth.

I find getting it to be punchy is a matter of envelope settings. Use an ADSR env as a compressor with a quick attack, short to medium decay (depending on desired punchiness), and a sustain level just a bit below the attack level. This will give the attack the "pop" it would have if you were using a compressor.

Another nice sound is a 1-bar decay. Set the decay of your amp env so it fades exactly on 1 bar at your song's tempo. Play it legato mono with just a touch of portamento and pitch bend and you can fool a lot of people into thinking it's a real bass.

Once you get one oscillator sounding nice, copy it over to another osc and fiddle with that one. Maybe an octave lower but much lower in volume for subliminal bigness. There's lot of things you can do.

psylichon

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 8/32 29-Oct-02 @ 09:34 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

Steve Roughley

Posts: 1178

Link?: No link

File?: No file

That sounds like it might just be what I am after. Cheers mate. I'll give that a go when I fire up the studio later on tonight.

It looks like the trick is keeping it simple. Am I right? Because I was applying all manner of wavetable functions to try and compensate for the bigness of the sound.

Regards.

Steve.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 9/32 29-Oct-02 @ 09:52 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

milan

Posts: 5701

Link?: Link

File?: No file

yup. keep it simple.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 10/32 29-Oct-02 @ 10:01 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

psylichon

Posts: 4573

Link?: Link

File?: No file

oh yeah, if you want some dirt on the front end like to simulate string buzz, just put a softened white noise burst (quick amp env) on the front just ever so slightly and it can add some air to your bass.

psylichon

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 11/32 30-Oct-02 @ 02:15 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

Mr Bash

Posts:

Link?: No link

File?: No file

Yea, I had a Virus about a year ago. I could never do a bass on it. As you say, for pads, leads, sfx, its the dogs bollocks!!!

But for bass. Nah. I know that doesn't help but just my experience with the virus. It takes up soooooooo much bloody headroom.

I use Pentagon now and am well happy with the results.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 12/32 30-Oct-02 @ 06:02 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

psylichon

Posts: 4573

Link?: Link

File?: No file

Mr. Bash,

I'm sorry but you msut have overlooked something. The virus is great for bass. Go try again!

psylichon

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 13/32 30-Oct-02 @ 06:10 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

Meriphew

Posts: 170

Link?: Link

File?: No file

Make sure you don't have other sounds "clogging" up the same frequency range as your bass, also, keep your bass signal dry - no reverb. You can also try adding a little distortion, sometimes that will help.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 14/32 30-Oct-02 @ 11:44 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

Steve Roughley

Posts: 1178

Link?: No link

File?: No file

Well lads, you've done it! I got just the bass that I was after, with minimal hassle. I just used a combination of a sine and a saw wave with some LP for smoothness, a little HP for tightening and about 50% ring mod for dirtyness. I also Set LFO1 to trigger with each note and sent that to FM amount to add a bit of movement. Simplicity is the key. I tell ya, if you have a Virus, this is the quick route to chunky, smooth bass. Of course, some post synth EQ and Comp was necessary, but a minor detail.

Cheers fellas!

Regards.

Steve.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 15/32 30-Oct-02 @ 11:47 PM Edit: 30-Oct-02 | 11:48 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

Steve Roughley

Posts: 1178

Link?: No link

File?: No file

Oh yeah, Mr Bash. When you say you 'had' a Virus, I hope you don't mean that you replaced it for the Pentagon soft synth! The Virus can do almost anything you want baby. If you tickle it right, it will repay you in sonic gold!

Regards.

Steve.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 16/32 31-Oct-02 @ 07:41 AM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

Pongoid

Posts: 2003

Link?: Link

File?: No file

Don't be afraid to try different things to mkae good bass patches. What works in a mix is highly contextual, ya know? If you're using tight punchy kicks, you can get away with much bigger fuller sounding basses like, dual and triple pulse wave stuff, more Low pass tricks, but for deeper kicks, you may find yourself much happier using bandpass style basses, and more FM to keep the mids more pronounced and characteristic. It really depends on both the rest of the mix, and the mood you are trying to set with it. Good luck.

Ape

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 17/32 01-Nov-02 @ 04:25 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

Mr Bash

Posts:

Link?: No link

File?: No file

OK Mr Steve Roughley you've laid down a challenge. I'll bet that I can make a phatter bass on my Pentagon than you can on your Virus. We will both post MP3's and let the other DTers decide. Interested now?

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 18/32 01-Nov-02 @ 04:26 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

Posts: 12353

Link?: Link

File?: No file

let battle commence!!

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 19/32 01-Nov-02 @ 09:23 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

psylichon

Posts: 4573

Link?: Link

File?: No file

I'll add a Nova edge to the contest.

Psylichon

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 20/32 01-Nov-02 @ 11:33 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

JX3P0

Posts: 28

Link?: Link

File?: No file

I'm gonna add some micro q sampled to Akai
5000 in a DnB context.

H- The final rinseout?stay tuned
kiddies,coming soon to a yardie's site near
you.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 21/32 02-Nov-02 @ 01:15 AM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

psylichon

Posts: 4573

Link?: Link

File?: No file

someone needs to upload a bassline. Or pick a track to emulate. not emulate the sound, but the actual line, so we're all at least working in the same genre. 8 or 16 bars of solo bass flavor with modulations to taste. What do you think?

psylichon

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 22/32 02-Nov-02 @ 01:19 AM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

milan

Posts: 5701

Link?: Link

File?: No file

well i just emulated a bassline from a cheezy mid-nineties dance track for a friend so why not.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 23/32 02-Nov-02 @ 04:18 AM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

psylichon

Posts: 4573

Link?: Link

File?: No file

alright, i may have the line then. It's a squarepusher track... dnb, but it could be taken any number of ways. It's a good line, and it's just a sine sub, so the sound won't influence your programming much. Shall I upload it?

psylichon

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 24/32 02-Nov-02 @ 04:24 AM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

psylichon

Posts: 4573

Link?: Link

File?: File

lis.mp3

Fuck it, there it is. Let me know if it works for you guys.

psylichon

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 25/32 02-Nov-02 @ 02:27 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

j-type

Posts:

Link?: Link

File?: No file

works for me. what are the rules, then? one box only, no outboard, or what?

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 26/32 02-Nov-02 @ 02:36 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

psylichon

Posts: 4573

Link?: Link

File?: No file

oh those are fun, but I say full-on production, like it was for a final mix. But just the bassline. Compression/EQ/whatever is fair game. That way it's not the capabilites of one box versus another. And at least a couple days to do it, with a given starting point. We'll put it to a forum vote, meanest wins.

And HIFI MP3'S. Quit whinging you pussy-ass modem users, it's only a couple bars.

psylichon

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 27/32 02-Nov-02 @ 02:53 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

milan

Posts: 5701

Link?: Link

File?: No file

eh psy, shouldnt we be using the same midi file in order to have the same line playing? i�m bound to go off on a tangent somewhere in order to make it fit my taste.

otherwise, count me in.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 28/32 02-Nov-02 @ 03:04 PM Edit: 02-Nov-02 | 03:05 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

psylichon

Posts: 4573

Link?: Link

File?: No file

dude, it's a pretty simple line. Try to restrain yourself and I'm sure you'll be aight. Do you want sheet music?

psylichon

ps - you're supposed to go off on a tangent, just not with the notes and rhythm of the line itself, gotit?

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 29/32 02-Nov-02 @ 03:08 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

j-t

Posts:

Link?: No link

File?: No file

"And HIFI MP3'S"

Is 192kbps, 16bit OK?

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 30/32 02-Nov-02 @ 06:28 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

psylichon

Posts: 4573

Link?: Link

File?: No file

I was thinking DSD in the 10Ghz range. :I

Just not 24k, that's all

psylichon

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 31/32 02-Nov-02 @ 07:51 PM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

j-type

Posts: 40

Link?: No link

File?: No file

fine

so when's the starting point, deadline etc? I've gone for 8 repetitions of the loop, with realtime tweaking as it progresses. do we have to declare the tools used before, or would people rather guess?

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 32/32 03-Nov-02 @ 10:22 AM - RE: Help! My bass sounds crap!

djjessex

Posts: 145

Link?: No link

File?: No file

synthesis is like a fine ass hochie mamma. You have to get her in the mood to put out.

you describe a tight bass. That comes with compression. But that is a mastering feature. You said you want to do it from scatch. You also said you have a virus, an A+ synth for bass.

You must unlock the secrects hidden within you synth. I dont have a virus, i have a nova. very comparable, and the rules of synthesis being universal, my rules will apply to your synth.

Here we go.

Osc 1: saw wave
Osc 2: saw wave
Osc 3: your choice wave, but -1 octave (for subs)
Mix your oscillators to find the right balance
Choose a filter: Lowpass or band pass suffice

Osc sych: This is most important. Oscillators can synch to each other or they can not. i find that two in synch and one off synch is cool. experiment.

Pitch: use a LFO or a Pitch envelope to control the pitch differently for each oscillator. Fat basses are fat because of these characteristics.

Use these principles but in no way are they a rule book for basses. Try different things each time and try to remember what does what. Your Em1 is a rom bassed synth and therefore somewhat limited compared to your virus, an anamod. the thickest, meanest sounds will come from the virus.

My best bass to date comes from the nova, A 3 osc bass that i made with all saw waves.

hope to help

saturntheory

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Viewing all 32 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3 4

There are 32 total messages for this topic

Reply to Thread

You need to register/login to use the forum.

Click here to Signup or Login !

[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]

Back to Forum